Two Suitcases, a Backpack, and a New Perspective: Starting Over? - Adventures in Advising

What happens when the advisor becomes the one navigating a major transition?

In Ep. 190 of Adventures in Advising, Matt Markin welcomes back Matt Plescia from Hamilton College for a conversation about career moves, starting over, and discovering how our professional identities change along the way. Inspired by Matt Plescia’s Academic Advising Quarterly article, “Two Suitcases, a Backpack, and a Duffel Bag: Finding Advisor Identity in Motion,” the two Matts unpack what it really means to leave behind institutional knowledge, familiar faces, and comfortable routines for something new.

From cross-country moves and new campuses to loneliness, belonging, work-life balance, and the humbling experience of becoming the “new person” again, this episode explores how transition can make us more reflective—and more empathetic—advisors.

So pack your bags (metaphorically or otherwise!) and join us for an honest, thoughtful, and laughter-filled conversation about taking chances, embracing uncertainty, and realizing that sometimes starting over teaches us exactly what our students need from us.

Follow the podcast on your favorite podcast platform!

The Instagram, and Facebook handle for the podcast is @AdvisingPodcast

Also, subscribe to our Adventures in Advising YouTube Channel!

Connect with Matt and Ryan on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

SPEAKER_00 0:13

Hey, welcome back to the Adventures in Advising podcast. This is episode what is it? 190 on our way to episode 200. And as many of you know, the podcast will be ending in January 2027 with episode 200. But up until then, we still have some amazing guests. And this is probably my shortest intro because I'm going to bring our guest on right now. Let's welcome back to the podcast. That plesha. Matt, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

Matt, I'm doing well. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Hey, hanging in there. Um, as some may know, I started a new job at Cal State San Marcos. And at the time of this recording, I just finished my second month at Cal State San Marcos. So it has been a whirlwind. And when you were last on the podcast, it was uh episode 170, uh, where you got to guest host and interview the amazing Hannah Stubley. And the reason uh, you know, we got to chat, the reason you're on again is one because you're you're an amazing person. But most recently, at the time of publishing this episode, uh you had a second article published in issue number four of Academic Advising Quarterly titled Two Suitcases, a Backpack and a Duffel Bag, Finding Advisor Identity in Motion. And definitely your article connected with me. Um, although I didn't move across the country, you know, I did make a huge, at least to me, change that after 20 years at Cal State San Bernardino, uh, 13 of which were in academic advising, uh, I not only changed institutions, I changed the type of role that I do now, but I also packed up and moved. Uh so Matt, I just wanted the guy to jump in with this first question of, you know, well, one, if whoever's listening, if you didn't get a chance to read Matt's article, go read it. The link we probably have in the show notes uh right now. But what made you interested in writing that article?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yeah, so first off, I just want to say congrats on uh two months. I appreciate it. But uh yeah, what really made me interested was um, you know, working here at Hamilton, um, it's a lot more holistic advising. And um, you know, that'll be back on the episode. Um, I think it was 170 you mentioned, right, with Hannah and I. And um, we do a lot of reflection here at Hamilton. So um, I kind of like wanted to like practice what I preached to my students in a sense. I'm like, you know, I sat down with the idea for a while and I was like, you know, let me think about like, you know, my past now. And um kept noticing how much of my advising practice was shaped by these, you know, two cross-country moves and how little of that like really kind of shows up in professional development conversations, um, at least um for some of like, you know, the conferences that I've attended. Um, we talked about advising philosophy, caseload management, technology and advising, but almost never what it does to you professionally to like rebuild your entire, I would say, life um at the same time that you're rebuilding your job. So I kind of wanted to name it out loud for not just newer advisors, but um, you know, seasoned advisors as well. I mean, like such as yourself. I mean, you said how many years were you, if you don't mind me asking again?

SPEAKER_00 3:27

Yeah, so it was over 20 years. So, like at County Ceremony, like I I tell people that I I grew up there, I matured there. Like I was a student there back in 2002, did my undergrad, graduated in 2004, a couple months after that, started a staff position working in academic advisor or not an academic advisor in admissions and student recruitment. So I was like a customer service uh relations specialist, is what the title was. Then went into uh admissions counseling, uh, you know, making admission decisions, then went into academic advising, also did my um master's degree there. So 13 years in advising. So yeah, I mean, that was my life uh for the longest time. Yeah. And and I like what you said about your kind of intro in terms in terms of the why, like practice what you preach, is what I think he said. You know, we've chatted before about like advising conversations with students, and you know, like I'll have students that I'm thinking about transferring to another school, or a life situation came up, and now I gotta move, or should I stay in in school? Um, or hey, this opportunity came up for an internship or a study broad opportunity. And I was always telling students, you know, hey, you don't have to do every opportunity, but these opportunities don't always come up. So you really want to think about should you do it or not? And sometimes I would kind of encourage students to, you know, explore and be open to these doors that that have now popped open. And it was kind of one of those things where I'm like, okay, this position opened up at another institution. Should I kind of practice what I preach? And you know, if I do I feel this is the right move, and should I go ahead and do it? And so far, so good.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, and I like what you said there too, because um, I mean, it kind of gives me, I'd say, more empathy um towards students as well. Because um, you know, practice what I preach, you know, telling students like, you know, this opportunity, let's say, you know, for an internship, or you know, and be like, you know, hey, let's jump at that. But like, let me think back to it. Like, so I'm a new advisor at a new institute. Um, I'm just gonna give an example of um, we have community lunches that are going on right now. I didn't know where to go for the lunch. The building had like two different names, and like, you know, at that like part of being like a new person at a new place, it was like kind of scary. I was like, oh, I gotta like go ask someone like where this is, and like I'm coming up on a year here almost. Um at 11 months now, about so it's like, you know, it's it's that you know, we're telling these students to do these things, but that's where like actually this article really came into play, too, was just you know, thinking about my students in mind and um just not my own profession um as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

So was there a specific moment, I guess, on either of the two times that that you made a move that maybe I'm I'm having this realization that this is now the time um to leave and to go somewhere else.

SPEAKER_01 6:21

Yeah, so I'd say FGCU, um, because you know that's where I had built up um, I'd say six and a half years of institutional knowledge. Um, I was also a student there. So um I did my undergrad, I did my graduate degree there as well, and kind of knew a lot of the work grounds, I knew the context, the uh you know, hidden curriculum, I'd say. Um that knowledge was real and valuable, but um at a certain point I noticed that I wasn't being stretched as much. And um the comforts to how it did feel it more like a ceiling. And uh that's when I had made the change to um FSW. I went to Florida Southwestern State College. Um, I wanted to experience that um, you know, state college sort of vibe. And then also um, you know, I noticed it was a whole different institute. Um, I had 1800 students on my caseload at that point. And I was like, wow, this is a big change. I think it was a change that was valuable, um, gave me new experiences, and you know, helped bring me on to Utah. So when we were talking about moving across the country, I guess when I realized it was time to leave was um I just kind of wanted to expand my growth as an advisor.

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, and it's like I kind of have the opposite because um I know we we chatted uh prior to this recording. And I know for me, like I'd been there over 20 years, you know, my retirement was looking good over there. Like I already saw myself staying in academic advising in some sort of level and eventually retiring from Cal State Sarambino. Again, like I was saying, is kind of the place where I grew up, it's what I knew, kind of going back to the institutional knowledge. Like I knew mostly all the stuff, you know, over 20 years, like the back of my hand. The office I was in in academic advising, like my boss, and I told him before I left, I said, I will never have a supervisor like you ever again. Because he allowed me to do so much hone in on um the academic advising part, hone in on uh getting to dabble in different coordinating uh positions within advising, but especially everything outside of the university, getting to go to conferences, being a part of Nakata, getting to be region chair, like supported every single thing that I ever did. And so it was one of those of like, oh my gosh, look, if I leave, I'm not necessarily gonna have this anymore. So for you, like, were there fears that that you had going into these moves and into these new institutions and new jobs?

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, I would definitely say, um, I mean, I was, you know, Florida, like I said, FGCU, that was my first, um, that was my advising family. Um, you know, I started as a peer advisor, I was 19 years old, and I didn't know what I was getting myself into. Um, but I'm really glad I had taken that peer advising position, or else I would not be here today. So um absolutely. Um, I mean, I would say fear-wise, I mean, I had a great uh mentor, um, his name's Shane Talbot. He was my first director, and you know, he supported me kind of learning how to advise as a you know student. And, you know, um, I was able to go to like flicata and things of that nature. So I was already, you know, getting professional development as a student worker, which was great. So Utah, like when coming from Utah to Hamilton, we'll go um to Hamilton College. Um, I already knew um the familiarity of like what it was going into, of like, you know, the fear of like not knowing anyone. So it was really about that like doing that isolation part a second time. And um, but this time I was doing it on purpose with my eyes like open, I'd say to speak. So I'd say that was the big thing. The fear wasn't really about the job itself. It's moving into a new institute, um, smaller liberal arts college. So I mean, I won't, you know, I won't say that there wasn't any fear behind that. There was, but I would say it was more so putting myself in that position again of being isolated, you know. Um now I'm on the east coast again, though. My family's on the east coast there in Florida, so it's a little bit easier to travel. But I will say that ultimately um I I kind of knew what I was jumping into, but also not really.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

Yeah, and to give context for me, it's like um why I made the move is it wasn't even more uh it was semi-professional professional growth, but it was mainly personal. Um, because as some people know, like I was I was in a long distance relationship 14 years at the time, you know. So like my partner and I would, you know, switch off like who's seeing who, which weekend, um, which was kind of nice because it was ultimately like these little mini vacations over the years. But I was telling someone the other day, I was like, at some point, like you look back, you're like, where did the time go? How all of a sudden is it 14 years? Okay, someone's one of us has got to make the choice because we had talked about are we gonna like move somewhere in the middle? But then we'd both have extremely long commutes, so it was like, all right, someone's gotta come somewhere professionally. Um, or if kind of think like retirement-wise, it kind of would have made more sense my partner to go where I was at because I was more established there. However, what I realized was uh the institution I moved to is still within the same Cal State system. So retirement uh that I'd built up transfers over. Sick leave transfers over. Um, so it was like, oh, that's actually a a potential here. And no shade to the area that Cal State San Martino is at, but inland empire versus like San Diego County, you know, uh it location-wise, it I I think uh I I made the right choice to move. So yeah, and it was one of those things where it's like giving up what I was already comfortable at, the professional development I was still gaining uh being at Cal C San Bernardino. And then it kind of goes back to, you know, we tell our students all the time, you know, take try these opportunities, be open, practice what you preach. And I was like, this is the moment where if I I need to really practice what I preach, if I'm gonna tell my students this, you know, I can't be a hypocrite. But it was like these fears, uh, or maybe like you're saying, not maybe not necessarily fears, but I was thinking, like, as much as it's a Cal State, I kind of think of them as sister campuses. So how things are done can be completely different. And that has been kind of that learning curve of kind of unlearning my old institution and learning the new one, learning the new processes and policies, learning a new campus culture, learning the new majors, graduation requirements, who does what, working with new colleagues. Um, and I told my previous boss, like I texted him, I was like, it just feels so weird being the newbie again.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

Yeah, 100%. Um, I would say, and I'm still feel like um, even after a year, I still feel like that, you know, in that newbie role. Um, you know, I was at Utah State University for um a little over two and a half years, but from that time I went from, you know, I was an advisor and then I jumped into a coordinator role. And then I feel like, you know, I feel like after that, you know, first year, that second year is when I really started gaining traction, started like knowing more people. And then um, you know, a couple months later, this opportunity opened in Hamilton, and I was like, you know, I'm gonna do it again, but uh I am going to be that new person again, and I'm not gonna know um a single person. And I think I I mentioned it in my article as well. Um, things that are like we were familiar, like you know, the coffee shop in my town, um, for instance, or even like the grocery store, like this these things change, you know, or like where I'm gonna get coffee on campus, like went to euphoria today, you know. I did things a lot of a lot of moving parts with the moves.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Uh I guess now that I think about it, um with fears, I think the one kind of I really had, and maybe this just kind of being in higher ed for so long. And when I think about retirement, you know, I was well established at Calcia San Bruno being there so long. So, like let's say there was a budget crisis or something, I was probably safe, you know, in terms of not being cut, but that is kind of one of the real scenarios is like, you know, you move somewhere else, you're at a new institution. If there is budget cuts and it's like, oh, we need to get rid of you know positions, it's kind of um last one hired, first to go. I don't know if if that kind of is a fear that that you have as well.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Yeah, so I'd say um the retirement part of things, um, and I'd say this was my first cross-country move. I wasn't really thinking as much as I should have, um, because you know, I was younger. Um, and you know, I'm 30 years old now. Um, I still feel like I'm still young in the profession, but like I feel like you know that's changing. Uh, I am getting older now. So like I start need to start thinking about that retirement aspect. So whereas mine didn't all transfer. So things are a little different there from my end. But um, with the budget cuts and things of that nature, that was um part of the reason why I actually did leave Utah State University. Um, there was um some programs getting absorbed, and then um we were also merging with the College of Agriculture. So I was in natural resources. Now it's the College of Agriculture and Natural Resources, and I was a coordinator, and you know, I'd only been there for two and a half years, and I was thinking, like, you know, I was like, what's this gonna look like when everything comes together? Um, am I still gonna be in this coordinator role? Um, not to say, like, you know, going back to being an advisor would have changed anything. I still would have, you know, stayed, but I just wanted to make sure I wanted to make sure I had a position. So when I saw the opportunity here, um, I knew I had to jump on it. Um, even though what we mentioned, um, just like you know, that isolation part again and that fear, um, it was still worth the move.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Were there any moments um like in the first few months uh of the new position where it's like, what have I done? Uh have I made the right move? We are we going from are we talking about USU or are we talking about Hamilton right now?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Or are we talking about Baltimore? Which or both, yeah, with whichever one? Um say with USU, and I've probably mentioned this on a past um episode, maybe. Um, I had never seen winter before going to Utah. So I'm pretty much a Florida native, and or was a Florida native, and um and negative 25 degrees was what I experienced within like you know, first few weeks. So I was like, yeah, you know, this whole snow thing, I don't know how this is gonna work. Um, I'd say the same thing here too. The winter's actually a little harsher here, it feels like. So um that's when I kind of thought about, you know, what have I done? Um, but I don't think that feeling ever fully disappears when you make a big move. You just learn that, you know, it's temporary and it passes faster than it feels like will in the moment, if that makes sense. Um, I mean, I have like, you know, no family nearby and there's no shortcuts, you know, within like my work yet. I would say sometimes I still come back to that, like what I have I done. But I know that the experiences that I've gained throughout the way have made me a better advisor and it's made me, you know, better for my students. So um I would say ultimately, um, I don't think the what have I done will ever go away, truly. And I don't know if you feel the same either. I mean, you know, you're two months in, so um to revisit this in the future.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Well, someone had told me that like uh one or multiple people um at the institution kind of told me when I first started in June that it was probably a good time to start, as much as you have like new student orientations, things like that going on, and it, you know, it's it's still busy. Um it wasn't super busy as it would be like during the first couple weeks of like a fall semester, spring semester. So um there wasn't in that first couple weeks, it was gradually getting to be able to kind of learn separate responsibilities instead of like everything all at once. So that was great. I will say weather is definitely uh better. I went from desert to now, you know, I'm I'm close to the ocean, you know. So weather-wise, a lot better. So I I love that. And the cool thing is, is um it's this is the 22nd of well, there's 22 cal states now, but at the time there was 23. So it was the 22nd of the 23 Cal states on this open around 1989, 1990. Um, and so it's a more modern campus, but a lot of the the building structure and look uh of it and the views of the hills and mountains are very reminiscent of Cal State San Bernardino. So it was like uh an extension of where you know where I've been. So that was kind of nice too. But there were a couple times where you know you get asked to, hey, can you look into this situation? Or you get asked, hey, can you can you find this out or can you do this project and kind of get it all at once on certain days? And it's like okay, if I knew all the information, I could get it done right away. But I'm missing certain parts that I need answers to. So now it's trying to find out, okay, okay, what department do I call? Is there a certain person? Is there even an answer to this? So it wasn't necessarily moments of like, what have I done? But moments of like, okay, there's a lot of pressure. I'm expected to to know this because it is my responsibility, but I don't know who to go to. But like you said, I gotta call someone, or you know, it in things we tell our student, yeah, you gotta reach out, you gotta network, and and it's like again, that whole practice, what you preach. So that's kind of been kind of what's happened to me on it. So not necessarily like what have I done, but um kind of close to it. But but what's the what once I get the answers, once I get the got the answers, then it's like, okay, now I know the next time something a situation like this happens, I have an answer. I know exactly what to do. Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Yeah, it's a it's a humbling experience, right? Like, I mean, like, and also knowing when to ask for help. I mean, that's what that's what I was taught when I first started advising, um, even as a peer advisor, just knowing, like, you know, I'm not gonna just give someone an answer. Um, I'll just say, like, you know what, I actually don't know that, which is okay, but I will find the answer and I will get back to you as soon as possible. Um, and I think that's something that um we all should be practicing in our education and not just, you know, being like, oh, well, I think this is what you should do, um, rather than you know, getting the correct information out to the student.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah, let me ask you this because um I know for me, this didn't happen to me, but I know other friends where they've made a move, you know, and they told others they they sometimes had someone that tried to talk them out of making the move. And I I think for the most part, those individuals were coming from um, you know, a positive kind of place based off maybe their experiences. But did you have anyone that kind of was like, hey, are you sure you want to you want to make the move either of the moves that that that you did?

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah, so I'd say um I'd say certain colleagues definitely, you know, encouraged it. They're like, you know, you're still young, you know, do this while you can, um, especially my first move. Um, my second one was more so um, you know, like, are you sure you actually want to do this again? Because, you know, they had sort of what I went through the first time, but um everything, you know, had gone great still, I'd say. But um the first time I will say it was personal as well. Um, I was in a long-term relationship and um we were moving for my career. Um, and my um ex had moved with me six months after. Um, and you know, we were in a depth, very different area in Utah. So, um, you know, the LDS community we weren't part of. Um, it was just culturally different. So um, you know, ended on amical terms, but I'd say that's one person who was like, hey, maybe like we shouldn't do this, which, you know, I get. Um, So that's why I also put it in like the article as well. Like, you know, this isn't for everyone. Like I had the opportunity to do it. Um, I didn't have anything like holding holding me down. And like, you know, she had agreed to go with me. Um, I'd say, you know, like my parents were big supporters of it. Some colleagues though, when I said two species is a backpack and a duffel bag, they're like, what? Um, what are you putting in those? Like, I'm like, well, like I have clothes that'll get me by. And then um in my duffel bag is actually my my PlayStation 5. So that was important. Um, so I was really moving with nothing and I was ordering things to the places that I would be going. Um, I did the same thing in Utah and I did the same thing here um at Hamilton College. Um, so in Clinton, New York, I ended up with a really great landlord too. This is something that um if anyone makes these moves, like you know, they have to look into this as well. But I was able to, I got really lucky. I was able to ship upstairs. He would, you know, go by the house, he'd put it inside for me, and I lucked out there on that end. Um, I'd say my first move was a little bit more rough, but uh, we don't have to get into all that on this end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

But speaking of moving and like the items, you know, um, I've had friends that have done the cross-country thing and they get the huge U-Haul or they'd hire a company and pick up everything, all the furniture, you know, and so much stuff, and you know, paying however much those things cost. But I'm very much like you, where I didn't necessarily have just the you know, the two suitcases and a double, I had you know more than that. And I made a couple, maybe like three trips uh to my partner's place to drop on my stuff, but it ended up being like you know, a backpack, a suitcase, and six or seven large plastic bins. But everything I was able to fit in three trips in in my um Toyota uh Corolla. Um but it made me really think of like, okay, of all the stuff I have, one I was kind of like, how did I accumulate all this? And what once I was like, you know, had joy to have, I kind of didn't look and I was like, all right, if I die, I can't take this stuff with me. And so it really kind of helped me consolidate, okay, what really is meaningful that I should take? What are stuff I can kind of part ways with, maybe take a mental picture and image in my mind with? I'll always have that memory, but I don't necessarily have to have it, uh, especially like furniture items that I'm like, I can just buy later, or TV I've had for 10 years that I can just get a new one at this point. Um, was that kind of your process, or kind of how how did you go about like what do I actually put in my suitcases and my duffel bag, my backpack, and and travel with?

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Yeah, so say like the TV, of course, like I you know, TV, TV stand, couch, all that stuff. Um, I was like, you know what, like I'll get it again. Um, I sold everything, you know, pretty cheap actually. But um, I mean, they I was selling everything to um had a lot of people that were just starting out in their professional career at um USU. And I was like, you know what, I'm gonna take a loss on this anyway. So if I was helping someone, I felt like that was good. Um, and then thinking about the items that I was actually taking, um, definitely some things were um I had sentimental items that I had like shipped um just back to my family in Florida just so they can be there. Um, and then you know, I can get those whenever. But the rest of it, um, like I said, my PlayStation was a big one that I was like, I'm bringing that with me. Um, and then uh yeah, just I just needed my clothes, um, books and things like that. I had shipped back home. So there were some things that I had shipped back. So, but uh it wasn't I wasn't planning on doing like a pot or a U-Haul or anything like that. I was like, you know, I've done this once before, I could do it again, and uh it worked out.

SPEAKER_00 25:43

Yeah, for me, you never got to like I, you know, I I say used to now because I I really don't collect them anymore, but lapel pins because I took them all off my corkboard when I was moving and I had them in this plastic bin and it kind of sat there and I was looking, I'm like, I've accumulated so many lapel pins, and in my mind I just started like there's like a cash register. I was like, how much money have I spent on all this stuff? So I kind of went through and and just picked out you know, maybe like 50 of the kind of hundreds that I've had of okay, these are the ones I really want to keep. And uh once I get a new cork or corkboard in my new office, I'm gonna put those on there. But I've told myself I'm never gonna accumulate as much as I did, regardless if it's a lapel pins um or or anything. But I want to I want to move on because uh you know, one of the things too that we had talked about uh offline was like advisor identity. Um, is advisor identity for you something that you think we discover? Is it something we uh you know intentionally build? Um is it something that we overconnect with? You know, has that any of that kind of come up as as you've made these moves and these transitions?

SPEAKER_01 26:56

Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I've come to think it's not built, um, or should rather think it's built rather, sorry, um, not discovered, but also can be reshaped um and depended by institutions too that you serve and the populations that you serve as well, student populations. I learned it's not like fixed in the moment. You get your first job title, you know. You just I'm an advisor, that's it. Um, that's not how it goes. Um, you know, mine carries pieces um, you know, from FGCU, from FSW, from USU, and now from Hamilton College. Um, I don't think I could have discovered that identity truly um by staying in one place. Um, I think it has essentially been assembled over time, layer by layer, through actual change.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Oh no, 100% agree with that. You know, I was saying at the beginning of the intro that I uh changed uh actual jobs too. So, like I'm I'm technically not an academic advisor anymore. Like I work in a dean's office um where my titles uh academic success and retention specialist. Uh so as much as I'm not an academic advisor, I kind of think of my role as like academic advising adjacent. So I still get to work with the Office of Academic Advising, get to connect with uh some of the academic advisors connected to the academic college I'm in. So I still get to, you know, table, present at new student orientation, talk to students. I still get that student connection. Um, I deal with a lot more of the uh complex student issues. So I still have that connection to students, which I didn't want to lose, which is why I've never wanted to go and become an administrator and just be in those conversations. I still wanted to have the student aspect of it. Um I will say I'm glad that I don't have a caseload. Um so it gives more time to kind of work through a lot of these complex issues with students or petitions, things like that. Um but um you know, yes, I do have you know less interactions than I did uh in my previous role as an advisor. But you know, I get I think like I get to work more behind the scenes to help solve solve these issues um and work more with like department chairs, associate deans. But you know, I guess like a few years ago I realized that you know, being an academic advisor, and people can argue this if they want, but that being an academic academic advisor is what I did, but it was never who I was. I think when I first started in academic advising, I thought of myself, I'm an academic advisor, this is my identity. But it's like I also have a personal life, you know, I have other professional things that I do. Um, so this is like part of what you know, maybe who I am at the time. But like easily when I got um moved and started this job, I was like, all my focus was on learning this new role. That being an advisor, it's like, okay, that was part of what I did, you know, a couple months ago and for the last 13 years, but it's it's not me, you know. Uh that was me two months ago, but now it's I'm me and I'm I'm new at this.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah, I want to chime in there if you don't mind. Yeah, like even for students, I tell them, like, you know, you're a college student, but that's not your whole identity. And then also this is huge for um student athletes as well. You know, you're a student athlete, but you have to understand this is also not your whole identity. We have to figure out, you know, um, you know, relate this to appreciate advising, like parallel plans. Like, you know, not everyone's gonna go pro. Um, so we have to like, you know, discuss maybe what's next after college. Um, and even for students, you know, you know, this job, this career path might be one that you don't go down. So having those parallel plans, I think, is huge. But yeah, and that was the thing too. For so long, I was like, I am an academic advisor, this is what I'm doing. And I was like bringing work home and things like that, and then you know, having to find that work-life balance too. But um, that's a whole nother topic.

SPEAKER_00 30:45

Yeah, yeah. But I will chime in on that last part of because we could do another whole episode on that. One of the great things too is um location-wise, like with Calcy San Bardino, like the area it's in, like you have to be on a freeway. Like, unless you live across the street, like you are on a freeway at some point. And with California, as many people know, especially Southern California, traffic mostly all the time at any any time of day. So, like I was probably getting to work at like 6 15 in the morning just so I can beat some of the traffic. Because I hate I don't know anyone that loves to be in traffic, but like when I would be in traffic, I'm like, I could have got this done, this done, this done. So I was getting to work at 6 5 15 in the morning. I was probably leaving work around 6 30 in the evening. Like literally my whole day and morning, uh, and especially into the early evening was work or in a car, you know. So by the time I get home, it was eat some dinner, go to bed, and then repeat it again the next morning. But yeah, bringing some of that work home. But getting to work early and staying late allowed me to do things technically off work hours, but I was, you know, on campus to do things like the podcast, things like that. But I was so, so burnt out. So one of the things great about this new position is like, okay, I live close by, so I can get up at a standard time, make it to work, leave at a good time, and not do what I was, you know, burning my, you know, burning the candle at both ends, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Yeah, and um, we talked about like you know what I brought and what I haven't brought as well. Um, I think you know this about me personally. Um, some people listening might think I'm a little insane for this. Um, I know some of my friends do, but um, I actually sold my car in Florida. And so when my ex and other you know came to Utah, you know, used that car for a while. Um, but I live within a mile and a half. Um, I lived within a mile and a half of USU, I live in a mile and a half of Clint um Hamilton, um, down in Clinton. So um, like I still don't have a car here, and I'm everything's accessible for me. Um, I know that's not like you know, perfect lifestyle for everyone, but um just you know having that like short commute. Like I can like, you know, I could be up on campus on a Saturday for an event and if needed, like if need be within, you know, 20 minutes really helps things that way. And then also helps me disconnect too, because I don't have that 50-minute commute that I might have had when I was in Florida at one point.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Oh, yeah, for sure. And and I'm sure, you know, people that I told at at my new institution, you know, they're probably like, Matt, stop talking about the traffic because it's like it's so great that I can take the streets and I don't need to take the freeway. I have multiple ways to get to and from the campus. This is amazing. But I want to also talk about um, you know, because you had mentioned a couple of times about the transition and and loneliness of it. Do you think advisors maybe sometimes or what can what do you want to share in terms of what advisors might underestimate of how lonely the transition can be?

SPEAKER_01 33:53

Yeah, um I'd say, and I include my past self in this as well. Um I used to not, and I'm gonna relate this back to students. Um, I used to nod with empathy um when students described, you know, feeling out of place, um, you know, even if, you know, you know, if they're coming from even, you know, across the state, but um, or you know, five states away or they're international students. I mean, now I nod along with recognition, I feel like, because I've sat in that same uncertainty now as an adult. And um, as in a professional job I, you know, supposedly qualified for, but um, it rattled me. Um, and if it could rattle me, I can understand why it's gonna rattle, you know, that student who's away from everyone that they know and love. And you know, they might have a couple friends already here, but um, it's it's not the same. And I think um other advisors might not, um, especially ones who have like maybe been at the institute for a long time and they see someone new coming in, might not have that perspective of like, hey, this person is like really new. But like when I came here to Hamilton, they had something that was really great called Home in Hamilton. It was lunches set up like you know every month for new employees. Um, you know, they would give us like um like these gift baskets and other things like that. Like it's great, like you know, and it just really made them feel like um they say Hamily and it really makes it feel like a Hamley, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

No, it does. Yeah, I only knew um one person at California's. Um, and but cool thing is I knew them through Nikata and Colette, if you're listening, um, I was glad to be able to meet you a couple days in, like to see you on campus, because it was great. Uh I was like, I know someone finally, you know. But that yeah, it was like I just knew one other person, and it's like, okay, now I actually have to go out and explore and and content. So I was setting up appointments with different offices, um connected to my role, but it was like I can actually get to meet other people and people I'm probably gonna need in my network if emergencies come up or there's a situation with a student, I'm not sure what to do, or I want to just brainstorm. Um, and yeah, I mean that the the loneliness part, um, being on campus, eventually it's kind of faded a little bit. Um, as I've got to know more people. I mean, the the dean's office I work in, the Chabs Dean's office have been so great from from the very beginning that I feel like it's so welcoming, um, helping out in the transition. I mean, I had access to all the computer access that I needed before I started. And I know for most people it's like months in and they're still waiting. I had that parking, like they did so much for me to ensure that my first day, I just roll right in to everything. I don't know how yours was. What do you want to share?

SPEAKER_01 36:43

It went just like that for me and Hamilton as well. I had access to all systems. I was like, this is perfect. I was like, this is amazing. I was like, how did they do this so fast? Um, so it was really great on that end. Relating loneliness back to students, I just want to like also tie this into students as well, not just about us um as advisors or you know, higher ed professionals. Um, that is a common theme within higher ed right now. We see that with students, and um, but then linking it back to like you know, advisors, um, that's where like this article had stemmed from as well. Like, I you know, I sat down with it because I was thinking about writing about something about you know regarding loneliness with students. I was on a committee um at USU um and we were like looking into things like that, but um it just sat with me for a while, and that's where that reflection piece came in. And I was like, we're gonna go back to the practice, what you preach. So, like, so I'm glad it uh finally came to fruition. And I actually sat down and you know put it onto the paper.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Has your definition of belonging updated or changed through kind of your life experience?

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Yeah, so I'd say it's shifted from something um I assumed would just happen. Um, you know, show up, get settled, belong to something. I understand it has to be built deliberately now, um, the same way advisor identity does in um in a point. Um, so belonging isn't isn't just like the absence of loneliness to me. I feel like it what's grows on the other side of sitting down with that loneliness for a while. So um, you know, going through that is what I'd say.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

I guess is there one thing that thinking back, whether it's one one of the moves or both, one thing you wish someone had told you before. Actually, yeah, let's talk, maybe talk about your first move. Is there one thing you wish someone told you before your first move?

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Um, I'd say that no one could put in a job posting what life will be like when you move somewhere. I mean, knowing what I had known wouldn't have stopped me from going, but just it was surprising that I was learning my whole life over at the same time. Like I think in the job posting, like you know, for someone out of state, it's like you're going to have to like relearn your life, essentially. And I didn't know that, but I mean, if if I had known that, I still would have made that move. Um, I think it would have, you know, those experiences like have as like I've said have uh shaped me as the advisor I am today.

SPEAKER_00 39:06

Yeah, at least for me, it's like I had that familiarity already. So it's like I was um, you know, the move, it's like I already had a place to go. Um, I already had, you know, been in this place, you know, with my partner, um, and kind of moving in. So like to me, it was just oh, now I'm here for a longer period of time than I usually am. But yeah, even just the again, going back to the the familiarity with with the institutions and and the look and feel, like I feel I really lucked out on that. Um you know, so we've talked about like the you know, physically the move and all that, but um, is there anything you would change? Like, what would you pack emotionally uh for for if you had to redo it again, the journey with with with moving?

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah, emotionally I'd say maybe patience and the willingness to be uh back to kind of not a beginner, but um, you know, I had years of advising experience under my belt, and you know, I'm learning a new advising language, um, so to speak. Um, I think I'm might we might have mentioned that when Hannah and I were talking. So we're more holistic advisors here and feel like USU, you know, on more of a large scale. So and then FGCU um kind of as well, um, taught me more to be like efficient and like you know, things were a little bit more prescriptive sometimes. Now here I'm like able to, you know, employ my a lot of what my advising philosophy is and like appreciative advising, being able to like disarm a student, have those connections with them, you know, go through the six phases. And I think now um I'd say patience and knowing quietly what making me a better advisor is, um, you know, if that if that answers your question there.

SPEAKER_00 40:52

No, it it definitely does. Um, yeah, and I'm just I was kind of curious about that. Cause yeah, I I think the patience part for sure for me, that the first few days it was like, am I even gonna, you know, how am I gonna remember all this? And then it was just kind of thinking back, like you, Matt, you just started at a new institution. You know, your coworkers have already said this is gonna take a year before you probably feel like you know the majority of stuff, and there's still gonna be more things. And it's even like being at Calce San Bardino for over 20 years, it was like almost every other day I was learning something new of like, oh, there's this, you know, here's a new gray area of how we can work with students, or here's a new requirement that we have to implement. So it's like we're always gonna be learning, and it was just you know, that patient, uh patience part of it. So I I think you know, you are absolutely 100% uh correct on that. Um, I totally agree with you. Um now being new, and I don't know if you if you ended up doing this, I know I've done it, I've caught myself, and I'm like, oh man, people are probably rolling their eyes like Matt, stop talking about this. But you know, I found myself comparing everything to my old institution, uh, especially the last couple months, because that was the frame of reference I had. So when I was trying to learn a new process, I was like, okay, this is how you do we did you do it here. When I was at my other institution, it was this way. Okay, so these are the differences, but it was kind of keeping keep referencing uh my old institution. I don't know if you caught yourself doing that constantly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

Especially moving from um a large public university um into a small local arts um advising at the Hamilton. The vocabulary and pacing are um different enough that the comparison was almost like automatic. I've learned to treat those comparisons as information rather than a verdict now. Um, you know, and they tell you what you're um you're used to, not what's wrong with where you are now. It really was hard. I still find myself doing it to this day. I'm like, all right, I gotta, you know, think about this. Um things are a lot different, you know, going from, you know, school with, you know, 30,000 plus students to, you know, about 1900 students, and I'd be like, well, I used to do this for this task. Why are we doing it this way? And then like, you know, having to wrap my head around that new policy. But I think it's been great though, because it's helping me grow. We mentioned being a lifelong learner, and like, you know, I think this is that this is where that fits in, but um, I can um definitely relate to you there. Um, something constantly. And uh I, you know, I'm sure at your year mark you might find yourself doing it alone as well.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

Yeah, I remember there was uh I think it was my like my second week, and uh, there was a certain um uh we need to get something done. And in my mind, I'm like, oh Sammer, do you know? I just called the register's office and they did this. And so I just assume, like, oh, well it's gotta be the same, right? So I caught the register's office and they're like, oh no, that's not us. It's actually Office of Academic Advising that does it. I'm like, oh, interesting. And that's it was kind of this concept of like, okay, anytime I assume it's something, just double check it, you know, look on the website, uh, look at the policy, you know, call around and just ask, hey, is it done this way? Can you help explain it versus just thinking, like, I'll just call them up and and and and they do this? So that's kind of been that that learning curve uh too. Um, I've also uh had to keep catching myself where it's like I work at this institution now, so I need to stop saying like your department or you know, your campus. It's like, no, we our I work here now. Uh has that happened to you too? Do you still do that?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

That happens to me as well. Um, I want to go back to the registrar thing that you mentioned as well, too, because I mean here at Hamilton, um, students, you know, they have me as their Alex advisor, but then they have um like an academic advisor as well, um, who helps them with the core scheduling. And then, you know, the registrar's office is helping students um with you know major changes and things of that nature. Um, you know, when I was at uh Utah State University, I used to send an email to the registrar's office after an appointment and they would change the student's major. Uh when I was at FGCU, um I'd fill out a form, but I was able to do it in banner and real time for the student, and then you know, refresh the degree works, and then they could see it pop up on the screen. So it's been like I'd be like, oh, I was able to do this, like I had the like power, so to speak, here, but now I don't have that power, but it's not really that, it's just learning that new model. So I'd say, um, yeah, I definitely relate with you there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Yep, it's just different, you know. Now to wrap things up, you know, the title of your article, which again, I hope listeners uh definitely check out your article. Again, I immediately connected with it and I was like, this has gotta be a podcast episode. But your title of your article is like I mentioned earlier, two suitcases, a backpack, and a duffel bag. If someone were to write the next chapter of your story five years from now, what do you hope they'd say you've packed that can't fit inside any suitcase?

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, I'd really hope they'd say I'd pack um genuinely a deeper capacity to sit with students um in their uncertainty instead of rushing past it. Um, I'd say the suitcases uh get lighter with every move. I said that at the end of my article, um, and I meant it. But what I hope keeps growing um is the opposite a fuller, heavier understanding of what it costs and what it gives to start over, and the patience to pass that understanding on to whoever's standing at their own decision point next.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

I can't add anything to that. I'm gonna steal that and say that's the way we're gonna end this episode. I'm gonna use that quote as well. Matt, as always, thanks for being on Adventures and Advising. Thanks for having me, Matt.