Lifting Students Up: Supporting Students on Academic Recovery - Adventures in Advising

Dan Wienecke, academic advisor and instructor at Arapahoe Community College, shares his journey from Colorado State University to various international roles, including Peace Corps service in Kazakhstan. At ACC, Dan focuses on retention, particularly for students on academic recovery. Wienecke discusses ACC's performance support workshops, which help students understand and improve their academic standing. He also discusses the appeal support event, a collaborative effort to guide students through financial aid appeals. He highlights the mutual benefits of his advisor and instructor roles, stressing the importance of empathy and support in student success. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hello and welcome to the adventures in advising podcast. This is Matt Markin and CO hosting with me is Ryan Scheckel. Ryan, what's up? 

Ryan Scheckel  
Hey, Matt, how's it going? 

Matt Markin  
It's going well. Are you ready for today's interview? 

Ryan Scheckel  
Yeah, I'm excited to talk with Dan. I'm can't wait to hear what his experience are like in his particular role, and really talking with us about the special programming and the approach he takes with students in recovery.

Matt Markin  
So let's go ahead and bring Dan on. So Ryan, I want to welcome Dan Wienecke. Dan is an academic advisor and instructor of Political Science and college fundamentals at Arapahoe Community College. He served as a US Peace Corps volunteer in Kazakhstan, and has lived in six different countries. His own path academic advising was by no means linear. He enjoys serving a wide range of students in his role as a retention advisor. Dan also has passions including civics, international affairs, public service, education, nature and the arts. Dan, my friend, welcome to Adventures at advising. 

Dan Wienecke  
Matt, Ryan, thank you so much. When I first started as an advisor, and now two years into the role, I've been listening to the podcast a lot, so it's kind of a bucket list item that I'm really glad to be a part of. So thank you guys.

Matt Markin  
Sounds good, and we got to officially meet in person in Pittsburgh. And so pleasure meeting you there and getting to now see you virtually again.

Dan Wienecke  
Absolutely. So yeah, Matt Ryan, thanks so much. Good. Good being on this.

Matt Markin  
So I'll go and start things off. And Dan, you kind of know from listening to the podcast, the first question we throw at you, but tell us about your journey in higher ed what's, what's your origin story? 

Dan Wienecke  
So, Matt, thank you very much. And you know, like you said in the intro, my my origin story is not linear. But I'll be honest, the fact that it's not linear, is actually what brought me to advising. So I went, I'm from Colorado, went to Colorado State University for my undergrad. Like a lot of students, didn't really know what I wanted to study, so I picked my favorite subject in high school, which was history. Semester two in I started taking poli sci classes, and I said, you know, there's a lot of crossover. I'll do a double major. Then my sophomore year, my favorite history professor, who I'm actually still in touch with, 20 years later, he inspired me to do a study abroad in the Czech Republic. So that semester, I studied abroad, that summer, I did some volunteer work in Ukraine. Came back, finished college, taught in South Korea for a couple months, went to grad school in Illinois, went straight from there to Kazakhstan, where I lived for a little bit over two years as Peace Corps volunteer. And then after all that, I did a lot of ping ponging in my mid to late 20s. Was living in Washington, DC, doing leadership conferences for high school students, and then Russia on two different occasions. First time I was there for was about three months in the Siberia region, if you can believe it. And then the second time for about nine months. So I kind of joke with my students that after living out of the backpack for about 10 years, I feel a little bit like Frodo wanted to come back to the Shire and just kind of settle down, get some roots. So there was that question of, okay, what am I going to do with my life now that I've been living overseas and I need to, need to, and want to kind of establish roots. So I came back top part time at a community college, then worked at a non profit for a few years that was internationally civic focused. And then after doing that for a while, I said, you know, I really have loved being in higher ed. My own advisor in college is the one who really encouraged me to kind of get off the farm and go abroad. What if I got a job as an advisor? So, long story short, those seeds were planted probably my sophomore year led to me living in a lot of different places, all over the world. And now full circle, I'm at a community college just outside of Denver, working as an academic advisor. 

Matt Markin  
I love that story. I mean, I don't know if I could be traveling, though I'm very much like, let me stay where I'm at. So more power to you. On, on all. 

Dan Wienecke  
Thank you. 

Matt Markin  
But do you feel like that's where it kind of like, your interest in, like, civics and International Affairs, like, it all ties together with that?

Dan Wienecke  
I think so. Because you when I started with history, it was because I really liked history in high school, and then, you know, I'm a nerd. You already know this from meeting me, but still in touch with my favorite history teacher as well, more than 25 years later. And you're right. I think there was that initial interest in learning about the world, and then there was seeing that world and kind of making those, those visual and kind of physical connections with what I had learned for sure.

Matt Markin  
And you were talking about being, being a nerd. And Ryan, so the other day. Dan and I were chatting on LinkedIn, and so we were talking about, like, our upcoming poster session on a positive posture syndrome using comic book characters. And so we're nerding out on comic books.

Ryan Scheckel  
Well, yeah, birds of a feather, that's the one of the things that we love in particular is the way that our passions, that we don't normally attach to the work we do, how much they actually inform the work that we do, and drawing those connections, hearing people's stories, especially when it involves the unexpected. You know, when something that's a good surprise, those are the things where I think students are really going to connect with us as well, too, as actual human beings, instead of the people whose stories they assume are so straightforward and absolutely logical and natural. 

Dan Wienecke  
So, yeah, definitely Ryan. I agree. 

Matt Markin  
Dan talked about kind of your origin story, so we're at right now at Arapahoe Community College. Can you talk more about, like, give us kind of, like, a broad understanding of ACC? 

Dan Wienecke  
So ACC, it's in Littleton, Colorado, which is literally right next to Denver. My wife, kids and I, we live in Littleton. The end of our street is Denver, so that's kind of where it's at. Want to say was early 60s that it was found. It's the oldest community college in the state. It's really fun, a lot like a lot of community colleges, very focused on helping students transfer, but the other half is straight to career and in general, a lot of times when I'm talking to people who are applying or looking here, I say it's got a really nice small town feel, because we have a lot of events where it's all hands on deck. It might be advising or admissions or student life, and everyone drops what they're doing and say, Okay, how can we come together and help support your event? So I love it. It's, it's, it's fun. Like I said, it's kind of my my Shire, and Matt, I'm a little bit like you. After all that traveling, I did a bit of a homebody. So it's just a nice community to be in, and it's welcoming, very friendly and laid back too.

Matt Markin  
Ryan, is that how you feel? Lubbock is or no?

Ryan Scheckel  
it's, I'll say this. I love the adventure. I love going places. We had a great time at the UKAT conference, their 10th anniversary conference in London and and there's, I think, sometimes nothing more exciting than a new new experience, especially seeing the world in a new way, particularly a world that I feel invested and committed to, but coming home like they're that feeling it's, it's one of the reasons why I think It's, I don't know if anyone's watched the newest and or trailer for season two, but when he's really trying to make a pitch to that potential rebel, he's saying you're coming home to yourself. It's an emotional thing that certainly sits in my heart. What it's like to be back where you are from, just as much as it is to go someplace new.

Dan Wienecke  
Yeah, I agree you have a new perspective and a new set of eyes on a home after you leave it. 

Matt Markin  
Dan, can you tell us about, like, how your position has kind of developed at ACC?

Dan Wienecke  
Yeah, thanks for asking, Matt and you, I'll be honest, it's it fits me very well, because I don't fit in a mold very easily, my own origin story, as you will, my own back story. And I love that I ended up in the position that I'm in so few years ago when I applied, the job posting said that the advising role would be through a grant. The grant, it's called PEAK. It stands for acronym. It's pathways to equity, access to knowledge, and the whole idea is that I wouldn't be filling a vacancy. So in other words, when I got hired, it wasn't that somebody left and I was filling their role. It was to expand the advising team, but also try things that were maybe a little bit different. So when I first started, there was actually not a clear idea of Dan you should be doing this. You should be doing that which I like. I actually really like uncertainty. It's an area that I'm very comfortable with. So first almost a year in the position, I was mostly covering for a few vacancies that we had actually really liked doing that, because that gave me a broad exposure to different degrees, different programs, different kind of challenges. And then a little bit less into the year, my supervisor approached me and said, Well, Dan, here's what we want to do for your role. Most advisors, not all, but most are specialists. So meaning, with business or technology or health students, we want you to have a broad area, and we want your broad area to be retention. So essentially, I meet with every type of student, but it's students who for a large variety of reason, academically, they're just not where. It's not just ACC but they're academically. Not where we want them to be. They're also academically not where they want to be. So most of the students that I meet with have a 2.0 or lower. They've been placed on academic probation, and we have a nicer term that we use, that we call performance support, or there are students that are returning from suspension. So I Matt, I think I told you this before. I like to say that my official job is academic advisor, my secret title is retention specialist, and then my secret secret title is a success coach, because really my whole goal is, hey, something happened the last semester or two, or sometimes even 5-10, years ago. How can I help you turn things around and and graduate or get your degree, whatever your goal is. 

Matt Markin  
So, it's perform, performance support now, but before it was academic probation, when did that, when did the term terminology change? 

Dan Wienecke  
It was, was before my time. So I'm not exactly sure. I want to say it was relatively recent, about three or four years ago, Matt, I will say, when you and I were at NACADA in October, I set in as many retention related sessions as I could. And I was very happy to hear that a lot of colleges, so community college, four year universities, are using similar terminology. So changing it from probation, which is harsh, like nobody wants to hear, hey, you're on probation, to something that's more supportive. So I do think it was maybe three or four years ago. A lot of students, when they're coming back on their record, it still has that academic probation term. But a lot of times, when I talk to students, I'll say, Okay, you have this term, performance support on your on your degree, check on your audit. Do you know what that means? And most of them say, Well, no, actually, I don't. And I explain, Well, you know the old words, it was probation. We don't want to use that. We want to support you. We want you to be here. We want you to complete whatever your goal is. 

Matt Markin  
We changed ours over here, probably, like, a year, year and a half ago, and then we went from probation to academic notice, is the term that we use. But yeah, just like you on the transcript the student before the change, it'll still show probation on their transcript. But from here on out, now it's updated how things at TTU, Ryan?

Ryan Scheckel  
Well, having been here as long as I have, I'm going to be a little bit fuzzy on the years. I'll use the easy marker of the pandemic, and say, prior to the pandemic, maybe a couple years we had had essentially, like a three step process, probation, suspension, and then, like, full dismissal, no return. And at some point, somebody realized that there could be another way to do it, and an additional step at the beginning was added. I don't think the terminology is any more effective. It's called academic warning, so that that adds an additional semester of support, an additional semester of opportunity to connect with that student and to go through a process of, what can we do to perhaps affect the outcome after a first semester start That's rough, as opposed to The immediate step is probation. The next step is semester away from the institution, and that has lots of advantages, of course, not only for students and educators, but certainly for the institution and first year retention. I think it's worth noting, Matt, that if you're dismissing a student after three semesters, as opposed to two semesters, that has a different effect on your retention numbers. So lots of models out there, lots of opportunity to consider, you know, what's effective in the practice? What's effective in the sort of bottom line conversation? I think advisors should be conversant in multiple languages, including the language of power and decision at their institution. But I'm curious, Dan, from your perspective, sitting with a student, do you find that they're more receptive to the performance support language, or is because it's ambiguous and they're bringing that context of not where they want to be, that it doesn't significantly change the dynamic?

Dan Wienecke  
You know, I love that question. Ryan, I would say there's definitely some ambiguity to it. I would add too though there's even ambiguity with what probation means. So both terms definitely have ambiguity to it. Once we explain what support, performance, support is, I think it kind of flips that script. Um, hey, yeah, you know your your GPA, where you are right now, you're not on track to graduate. There can be financial aid implications, things along those lines, but it's not you're in trouble. It's we realize that something is not right, and our goal is to intervene and to lift you up.

Ryan Scheckel  
Yeah, I'm curious. In particular, I have colleagues in my direct. Reporting line in the group that we work with, the language that you use is academic recovery advising. And of course, we have students at every step of the process, even some who are appealing dismissal. And I think the practice of working with students whose academic standing with an institution is a potential retention risk or an attrition loss, whatever context you want to use, that practice is particularly interesting. Was that always the case with the peak grant and the nature of your position? Have you found your footing with it in the last couple years?

Dan Wienecke  
You know, I would say I found my footing. Definitely not found definitive answers. Definitely have not found definitive answers. And I You're all smiling because you agree. It's it's wanting to, you know, I want, we all want that silver bullet. What's the, what is the thing that's going to work? And I try to remind myself, I try to tell myself the same thing. I tell my students progress, not perfection. Okay, with this peak grant. The idea was to increase student retention, lower advising case loads. As far as I know, we've done that definitely can't say mission accomplished, though, for sure. 

Matt Markin  
At least there's been improvements on it. Exactly. It's a work in progress. But, yeah, I think this is a great segue for you know, to talk maybe about the performance support workshops. 

Dan Wienecke  
So, let me kind of queue this up. So the process is students in a semester, for whatever reason, their GPA dips below 2.0 after the semester, our records department processes everything, and they do this process called academic standing, and then that standing is more or less their status anything from good to not good. If a student ends up in that performance support category, the records department sends us a list we put a hold on their account that prevents them from preventing from the next semester. And then we send an email saying we want to let you know you're on performance support. We are here to support you with that to remove the hole that we placed on your account, we ask that you complete the workshop and the workshop itself. They don't have to come in and see anyone. It's a video that they watch. At the end of the video, they answer a few questions. Lot of the questions are, what kind of challenges did you face? What kind of support resources, based on the video, are you now aware of? Do you know who your advisor is? What's the minimum GPA that you should aspire to? What's your current GPA. So it's a bit of a non graded quiz, if you will. And the whole idea is that they leave feeling supported, but they also leave with some tangible some ideas of what they can do moving forward. So yes, Matt, if you want, I can share the screen. I can play this video. The two of the hosts that are in it are student workers who work in advising. One graduated last year. He's now at the University of Colorado, Denver. He's a rock star. The other one is graduating next month. So we're happy for we're very sad for ourselves. So it's student narrators to also kind of build that, that relationship and that empathy. So you let me know, sir, and I'll I'll hit play when you're ready. 

Matt Markin  
And before you get to that, I guess, like when you were all deciding, like, how should we do this? Like, should it be, like, a video that they watch, versus, like, coming in for in person, for a workshop, or throwing this on, like an LMS, like, Blackboard or Canvas? What made you all feel like this would be more appropriate to do at your institution?

Dan Wienecke  
You know, I think, is basically our student body. So community college in general, and ours is no exception. Roughly 75% of our students are part time. And a lot of reason this is just anecdotal, that students end up on academic probation or performance support, or recovery, or whatever you have is because they're just stretched really thin. They're working full time, they're working part time, and they're taking on a full load. So our rationale was, we wanted something that was live, but they didn't. They weren't required to come to because we know they've got a lot else that's going on, something that was also just very simple and friendly.

Matt Markin  
And then is this done, like after review of grades after each term, or is it based off, like, semester? Does that include like, summer as well, 

Dan Wienecke  
Every semester? Yeah, every semester. So, you know, in theory, a student can go down to the performance support, pull their grades up for a semester or two, and then go back down again. I'll be honest. I don't think I've got a deep dive in the diva to know if we've had kind of roller coastering students, if you will. But the goal, the real goal, is that they only have to do this process once, and then they're on the up and up moving forward.

Ryan Scheckel  
Ryan, any question before Dan plays the video?

Ryan Scheckel  
I'm looking forward to watching

Dan Wienecke  
it. All right. Jen, are you? Let me know when you're ready? 

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I think we are.

Dan Wienecke  
All right, so you should be able to see you now. So, all right, gentlemen. So to queue this up, these are some student workers and other staff who created this performance support video.

Video audio  
Hello and welcome to the performance support virtual workshop. My name is Carmel. My name is Charlie. We're peer advisors and students just like you. We'll be your tour guides through this workshop today, along with other ACC staff members. You may be wondering, how did I get here, and what's next for me in today's workshop, we'll go over everything you need to know about what it means to be placed on performance support. We'll go over strategies and resources for your success. After attending this workshop, you'll be asked to complete a short evaluation. Let's go ahead and get started. This workshop is intended to provide you critical information about ACC is academic standing, policy, potential outcomes of not meeting ACC, academic standards, the academic improvement process, and finally, ACC resources designed to support your goals, academics and overall well being. Feel free to pause the workshop to jot down any thoughts, questions or concerns and take a break at any time. We now turn things over to Marci.

Dan Wienecke  
All right, and I'll pause it there.

Matt Markin  
So yeah. So like this video, it's essentially, if these students are going to watch this, they're going to get kind of that understanding of why they have the certain academic standing that they have, and then from kind of building that foundation and kind of learning about, well, what do I do about it? 

Dan Wienecke  
Exactly. And I love that you use the word foundation. It's really starting at the base level of building up and you mentioned academic standing. It's literally the world that I live in, and it's still so confusing for me all these statuses. Imagine being a student and you've had a rough semester, and all of a sudden you're expected to learn these policies that that don't even make sense to people who do the job, let alone from the outside looking in.

Matt Markin  
Do you have students that they get the email saying, Hey, you have this performance support standing. We want you to watch this video and then complete the evaluation form. But maybe they don't do it, and they don't attend for like a term, would they just when they are ready to come back? Would they just do this and then submit their evaluation form?

Dan Wienecke  
They would, and sometimes students will submit it and they'll not come back, which will reach out to them and say, You did the process. Why are you not coming back? But most of the case, it's they had a rough semester, and they're just kind of licking their wounds, so to speak. And they need that time off a semester or two before they come back. We're always, always happy to help them back. Sometimes students say, I don't know if I have time to watch the whole video in that case, and you know, in case my supervisor is listening to this, they say, you know, it's okay. We can have a private one on one conversation. I'll do my best to cover the same material that you learned in the workshop, anyway. 

Matt Markin  
I mean, Fannie too. They could start pause and come back to it and finish it.

Dan Wienecke  
Absolutely, absolutely. 

Matt Markin  
And then, when? And then I noticed that it got on the website. They have, you have the PowerPoint that they can download, and that's essentially also follow. Those are the slides that are on the video?

Dan Wienecke  
They're the slides. And we, we always encourage them, because you can always reference it later on and come back to it.

Matt Markin  
Talk to us about the resource guide that you have there on the site.

Dan Wienecke  
So, the resource guide is essentially campus partners. So anybody on campus, from academic advising to career services, tutoring is a very big one. On a daily basis, I have conversations with students, and I say, Well, do you know that ACC has free tutoring? And then I'll correct myself, and I'll say, it's actually not free. You're paying for it as part of your student fees. And they usually raise an eyebrow and say, Wait a minute, and I paid for it anyway. Why am I not using it? So it's a list of support resources that they can use. One that I haven't mentioned yet, and you're all familiar with it, is Dean of Students Office. So a lot of times when a student's GPA dips below two, oh, is because there were some kind of extenuating circumstances that happened in the semester. And I've heard some heartbreaking stories, people who've lost a loved one, people, students who've ended up in a hospital, always like to say, our goal is to have you back and to keep you here. Dean of Students Office, they're the non academic side. They can help you with counseling services. If you need counseling services, they can help with mental health. They also have a extenuating circumstances appeal process, even just letting students know those types of supports exist. A lot of times they don't.

Matt Markin  
Now, the conversation that you have with students, you know, I mean, advisors meet with students all the time and with you like you're having to talk with them about these GPAs and you know how to get back into good standing. And they all have different situations, and you might have some that may have had extenuating circumstances, but feel like it's this negative connotation, that I'm have this performance support, that my GPA is really low. How do you help them understand like this was an external thing that happened in your situation, but it's not like a representation of you as a student?

Dan Wienecke  
I love that question, Matt. And a lot of times I'll start the conversation by saying, to the degree that you're comfortable, do you mind sharing? I don't think I've had a single instance where a student didn't open up after I framed it that way, but once they open up, me naturally. I use a lot of asset based language. I'm a very positive person, overall goofball too. You totally know that once they open up a lot of times, I'll say, well, give yourself credit. You decided to come back. You didn't have to make the decision to come back. Something happened last semester, or 10 years ago, or anything in between. You've consciously made that decision to come back, give yourself credit, don't mentally self talk, congratulate yourself for making that decision to say, yeah, that was rough, but the next semester and the next few are going to be better. 

Ryan Scheckel  
I'm curious. Have you found any approaches drawing on your experience prior to higher ed and academic advising, or maybe from your own Higher Ed journey that helps build that trust to open up or to take that advice of giving yourself credit and having a perspective that is positive. Is there anything that you really gravitate back to or find yourself using as a touchstone, just personally in practice?

Dan Wienecke  
I love that question. Ryan, you know, I try to reassure students, and this is kind of going back to my bio, and the three of us talking about just not linear, is things don't have to happen right away. Most things take a while. I challenge a lot of community college students are facing is they feel this pressure to get through a degree as fast as possible. And I always reassure them, there's really no award for speed when it comes to education. You know, it feels good if you get it done in a couple years, but there's no ribbon for getting it done in a certain amount of time. The degree is going to be the degree whether it's four years or 10 years long, or anywhere in between. So yeah, to kind of answer your question, a lot of it based on just my past is talking about goal setting and also coming up with simple and realistic goals. Sometimes students are very eager to they maybe they took five classes in their most recent semester. They want to do five again the upcoming semester, I'll say, Okay, I admire that. I respect that. But let's, let's call this your triumphant return, and let's just be a little more modest and take two or three classes, and then we'll slowly build up if that's going to be your comfort zone.

Matt Markin  
And I think kind of connected to that. And I think this is just probably you as a person, Dan, is you're very curious about things. So yesterday, I was, I don't know if it was the video I watched or something I read, but like you were quoted as saying that you're very happy and proud of the path of the life has taken you down, and a large part of it comes down to your curious instincts. 

Dan Wienecke  
Yes. Thanks, man. I encourage students to do the same. So, you know, I'm an advisor right now. If you talk to, you know, mid 40s, I won't say exactly how much, but, but mid 40s, if you talk to Dan 20 years ago, it's not something that I would have necessarily seen myself doing. To be honest, even 20 years ago, I didn't even know such profession existed. But yes, the curious instincts. I try to encourage students to trust their intuition. A lot of times, students are saying I should do this, because society is telling me I should do this. And I'll say, Well, what do you want to do? What is your instinct telling you to do? And I'll draw from my own experience and say, Yeah, I lived in six different countries in the period of about 10 years. It was very much a nomad. I don't think I could have done it any differently. I don't think I would have wanted to do it any differently, because that's what my instinct was telling me at the time. 

Matt Markin  
And I think connected to this, you know, you were talking about with the performance support and the video that they watched, but also connected to this is the appeal support event that you all do yes. And I was thinking that this could be a great segue into talking about that.

Dan Wienecke  
Would love to and again, something that predates me, definitely not my brainchild or anything I can take credit for. My role has been very small within it. I believe it was our current trio director who initiated this a few years ago, but the appeals support event Matt and Ryan, it's a week or two before the start of each semester, students who need to submit an appeal for financial aid. And it's that whole idea of again, classes are a week or two away, but we want you back, and we know, money is a big aspect of it, right? So we're here to help go through this process. We did this in January, and you know, you're both in a lot warmer states than I am, and pretty cool here in Colorado, in January, we had over 24 students show up. We had probably about at least 40 staff members from across campus help guide them through the process. And the process was write a narrative, which I do that when the students come because, you know, there's there's that teacher in me, there's that nerd in me that wants to help them with their writing. Also simplify it. It doesn't need to be your life story. It's just a few quick points about how you got here. Then it's meeting with an academic advisor to say, okay, what are we going to come up with? Also letting them know that we've got dean of students, student life, other support resources, such as disability access service on campus. And then the very end, it's almost structured game, board game style, where they start at the beginning, meet the different resources and leave their appeal before they go. They find out just a few days later if their appeal has been approved by a committee. And our whole role, again, is really to welcome them and say this giant team of 40 plus staff members, we're not making the decision at the end of the day, but we're helping guide you through this process, really rooting you on. 

Matt Markin  
So, they're actually starting and finishing their appeal at this event?

Dan Wienecke  
At the event, at the event, and most of them get out within about 45 minutes to an hour or so. So it's once, one once. Yeah, one stop. If you're interested. I'll connect you with the founder of it. 

Matt Markin  
Well, I mean, I just think we know, like, at least where I work, you know, it's like, sometimes it can feel like some departments are very siloed, and, you know, I could only, I only know so much about, like, SAP and what, what maybe to talk with the student about. But I think to have an event like this, where it's like we can all be there and then all do our own individual parts of what we do know to help the student, and they can accomplish something like that, because I'll have students that will get emails, but then they don't understand what the email means regarding to whether they should or do not. You know, do do a SAP Appeal or that they even have an option for it, or they get directed to the website, and there's just so much text that they have to go through. So this kind of, you know, breaks things down for them, and, you know, maybe more digestible way.

Dan Wienecke  
It is digestible and again, going back to my saying before, students don't know what these policies mean, and why would they, unless they're faced with them.

Ryan Scheckel  
Yeah, I'm curious. You know you have at your institution, you have a multiple campus model as well in your programming, not just the event, but in overall. Can you talk a little bit about that, that multiple location, experience and and what you do to bring colleagues in and to network and to connect, whether it's events or other structural activities, organizational design and the way organizations operate, sometimes the solutions aren't found in the programming, but like the philosophy behind decisions. So how at ACC How do you see that working specifically for the student group that you work with?

Dan Wienecke  
So, for me, what's nice about it is I meet with students who are mostly here at the Littleton campus, about half hour, maybe 45 minutes on a rough traffic day south of us, there's the town of Castle Rock, where we've got, it's called the Sturm collaboration campus. Actually have my partner in crime who does the same role down there, and we collaborate together to say, Okay, what kind of conversations are you having, students? What kind of issues are you coming up with? And you know, where can we we duplicate? I don't want to say things are redone, but where can we duplicate? So that appeal support event in that Sturm campus in Castle Rock, they do one as well. And what's actually kind of nice about it is we've had students who, because the campuses are only about half hour, 45 minutes apart, if they're not able to come to one. The other one says, Hey, you missed it, but there's another one that's coming up. You can go to that one as well. So I have to say, you heard me say this, and I like, there really is a good small town feel to Arapahoe Community College. I don't feel like we're siloed, and that's good. I'm not experienced at other places I bet.

Matt Markin  
I saw someone on LinkedIn post regarding that event, I think was Kristie's the first name, but said like it means simplifying complicated processes so they're easy to understand. And it means centralizing key resources to ensure accessibility. And it means having both compassionate and candid conversations to support students growth. And it means showing up absolutely.

Dan Wienecke  
Yeah, absolutely. And Kristie's is my supervisor, so I'll make sure that you mentioned that.

Matt Markin  
Hey, shout out to Christy. Dan's awesome give him a raise.

Dan Wienecke  
Thank you. See, that's public now,

Ryan Scheckel  
Fully endorsed. You know, we. Yeah, Matt was talking a little bit about it, the experience of sitting with a student in that moment, and, you know, we're translating institutional language and trying to make it relevant for their contexts and stuff. And I just think that sometimes, when it's the primary role for someone like in your role, Dan the comfort level in those difficult spaces, or what might be perceived as difficult spaces, changes for then, for somebody who you know, their probation suspension at promise student is the exception to the rule. Do you have any advice for people who don't have those conversations regularly in just maybe how to be more comfortable in that conversational space, anything that you've learned in doing it as as often as you've had the opportunity to do?

Dan Wienecke  
You know Ryan, I love that question, and I'll be honest, I still struggle with this myself, but a big one for me is just being comfortable with silence. So, you know, as an as an instructor, we all experience this as teachers or students. Teacher asks a question, everybody's quiet. We I experienced that a lot with students who come in where a lot of times before they've even said anything, I'm handing them the box of tissues because they're just so emotional being here because of the circumstances. And I have to remind myself that student needs a few minutes advising can feel very fast paced and very transactional. Sometimes that's the opposite of what these students need. They need somebody who's not going to rush them. They need someone who is going to listen to them, someone who is going to say it's okay that you got an E or an F or I know you worked really hard. I also know that, like me, you've got kids at home and you've got a job and these classes are not the soul of your life. Just be okay with silence. I'll also say, Ryan, it's okay not to have the solutions. I try to remind myself that too. You know, I can't fix everything, and my students are expecting me to to be this guru that has all the right answers to them. It's more I like to think of myself as kind of the guide on the side who is helping them through these processes, and a partner that cares about them and cares with them?

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I would argue that some students might look at you as me, wanting to be the guru to answer that. Just ask you all the questions and get all the answers.

Dan Wienecke  
Yeah, I wish I did, but I don't.

Ryan Scheckel  
Well I, you know, just drawing on love for pop culture and stuff and and some of the themes of our conversation today, this, this idea that, you know, sure we may have strayed from a path, right? But sometimes when we're wandering, we're not as lost as people would like to say. You know, we're learning by seeing maybe we're learning things the hard way, or whatever, but I know that oftentimes, sharing my own experience of like you could, I'll pull up my transcript right now, one of the joys of being at my undergraduate institution, I'll pull it up. I'll show you. I was like, You know what I was doing that semester? You just buy it on yourself, right? I love it. And I'm like, I have no problem sharing that perspective to say, look, I learned things from that. I may not have gotten the performance academically that people expected, or I might have wanted for myself, but I've learned some things. And let's, let's talk about that. Let's talk about what we've learned. I think motivational interviewing that has sort of like a cousin discipline with coaching, is to say, was there a benefit, or did anything good come of this there? There might have been, it's the idea of reclaiming some good, but, you know, there's, there's a popular saying out there that not all who wander are lost. We may not be where we are expected to be, or we want to tell ourselves we were supposed to be, but we had an adventure, and we've learned some things and and I always like to share, even the hard learned lessons and the the the bumps and bruises along the way, they still teach us things.

Dan Wienecke  
I agree. And sometimes it's you know we have to reassure students is sometimes it's just as important to learn what you don't like as it is to learn what you do like. 

Ryan Scheckel  
All data is good data.

Dan Wienecke  
All data is good data, agreed.

Matt Markin  
Or another famous quote from Dan, is fun is good diplomacy.

Dan Wienecke  
Fun is good diplomacy. Thank you, Matt, you really studied up on me. I respect that.

Matt Markin  
I try. I guess I became a stalker on Google trying to find out.

Dan Wienecke  
You're good at it. Who is this, Dan guy? Fun is good diplomacy, well. And you know, per your point, school should be fun too. I think a lot of students come to college with the transactional approach of, I need to get a degree so I can get a job and pay the bills. That is no way to live you. I want students to have fun. And, yeah, you could probably guess I try to be a fun instructor as well. Still in still knowledge, still get them excited about it. It, but make them want to come to class in the same way that students want to meet with me as an advisor.

Matt Markin  
Speaking of teaching, how long have you been instructor for?

Dan Wienecke  
So, off and on, often I had an ACC I've been teaching political science and college fundamentals for about two years now. When I first came back from living abroad, I taught part time at another community college, Front Range Community College, for about three years. My my first foray into teaching at the college level was it as a Peace Corps volunteer. So one of the best things about Peace Corps is you kind of create your role. They send you to this other country for two years. You're kind of like an Alice in Wonderland type scenario, where you're definitely A Stranger in a Strange Land, and you don't really know what's going on, but you kind of have to create, create your own reality. So for me, I was working at a nonprofit organization, and nonprofits at the time were brand new, because the country itself was only about 10 years old when I got there, I realized it was very easy to squeeze in some side projects, so I basically approached a local university and said, Hey, I'm an American guy. Can I start teaching here? So my first time teaching college level was in northern Kazakhstan. 

Matt Markin  
That's awesome. Do you I would imagine that being an advisor impacts how you are as an instructor. Do you feel it's vice versa? Teaching in the class impacts how you are as an advisor?

Dan Wienecke  
Absolutely. I think they're both very mutual, supportive things. As an advisor, I'm hearing students tell me about challenges they're having in life, challenges they're having in class. As an instructor, I'm seeing them on a day to day basis too. I've had a lot of students who would come to class enthusiastic participate, your kind of ideal model student that you want as a teacher, not turn in a single assignment. So the advisor in me is sweating bullets and freaking out saying you're you're delightful. I love that you're taking my political science class. I might have to fail you because you have to turn in work just out of fairness. So a lot of times you sociology uses that expression of seeing the general through the specific. A lot of times I'll see that where there's students who I don't want them on my retention case load, but they end up that way, and I'm seeing what's happening to get them there. So yeah, I think both things are really mutually beneficial to one another. Complimentary, for sure, excellent. 

Matt Markin  
Just makes me think that there might be some students that, and I think this is us as advisors having to really ask specific questions, but then also asking the open ended questions to really kind of understand what is going on. What's the story? If we're missing puzzle pieces, how do we get the missing puzzle pieces to see the actual, actual picture? Because let's say they might be failing your class because they're not turning in assignments, or they're not showing up, but they might send in our office and say, Well, Dan didn't give me a study guided to do this, and they make it seem like they're they're doing everything they can to pass the class. 

Dan Wienecke  
You know, I have seen some of that, but not too much. I put myself out there and first day of every class, and actually throughout every class I've taught, I admit I definitely don't know all the answers to everything. So call me out on things, give me feedback. And I do feel like teaching should be a two way street. It shouldn't be this top down. I'm the person who knows everything, and I'm just repeating it to you. I just like advising. I feel like it should be an interactive process where teacher and student are learning from one another.

Matt Markin  
So I think just to end, let's end on something that's non advising or teacher related. Pop culture. What are y'all watching? I mean, this comes out in May, but you know, I think Ryan's gonna be watching Andor.

Dan Wienecke  
I'll y'all know that I'm nerds. So my wife and I, this actually ties into my bio. So we've been married almost 11 years now, we were set up on a blind date, so our friend who set us up said, you're both short funny, and did Peace Corps, and we hit it off right away. So we didn't serve in the same place at the same time, she served in the Republic of Georgia, and we nerded out over dune on our first date, and this was 1984 Dune OG with Sir Patrick Stewart in it. So we, we watched that in the at night. The 1984 movie had a retro showing last week, and we re watched the new ones. We can nerd out over that stuff all the time. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah, and you all are re watching Twin Peaks?

Dan Wienecke  
Oh, yes, we are lot of Twin Peaks. I mean, Kyle McLaughlin and David Lynch, what a great combination. Yeah. And, like you said, Matt, every day, give yourself a little treat. 

Ryan Scheckel  
It was the Einstein who said that play is the highest form of research. And and, you know, we are encouraged. Matt and I have been working on. This idea that the stories that we engage with, the value that it has in the way that we think about others and interact with others and stuff. And I it's a it's an exciting summer, I think, for fans of pop culture and and especially the sort of the superhero genre, with the Superman film that we're expecting to be very positive and hopeful and and all the things that are happening in the geek space. It's always, it's always great to find another member of that group.

Dan Wienecke  
So absolutely, it's a good group to be a part of. 

Matt Markin  
Well, I think this nicely wraps up this interview. Dan, this is a great conversation. Got to talk about a lot of different things, and got to end talking about pop culture. So thanks for joining Ryan and I on the podcast today.

Dan Wienecke  
Matt, Ryan, thank you both so much. Really appreciate it. Appreciate what you do.