Innovation and Advocacy: Insights from Higher Ed Leaders - Adventures in Advising

In this higher education administrators panel, Barbara Smith from The University of Texas at San Antonio and Jill Geisler Wheeler from the University of Arkansas highlight the need for professional development and support for advisors, while advocating for student and staff well-being. Both discuss the challenges of balancing technology's benefits with maintaining personal connections. Dr. Todd Chambers and Ryan Scheckel from Texas Tech University discuss innovative practices, such as breaking down silos and using AI in advising, while also focusing on the importance of collaboration across higher education.

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hey, and welcome to another episode of The Adventures in Advising podcast. This is Matt Markin, and we have a special administrators panel for you today, now due to time conflicts with scheduling, this panel will be split in two separate recordings on this episode, so what stories and other narratives can advising administrators share for others to gain understanding of the challenges in higher ed, but also help envision a positive future, what tips can be provided regarding continued professional development, while also supporting advisor well being and self care. And what is the conversation on implementing new technologies? How do we push forward in an ever changing higher ed system? So first up are Barbara Smith and Jill Geisler Wheeler. Barbara Smith is a first generation transfer student, earned her BS and MS in Biology from the University of Texas at San Antonio. She's currently serves as the executive director for transfer and transition Student Success Services and the Fostering Futures Program. She's an active member within organizations including, but not limited to NACADA, TEXANN, and AACRAO. Barbara, welcome. 

Barbara Smith  
Thank you, Matt.

Matt Markin  
And we also have Jill Geisler Wheeler. Jill is the director of honors and experiential learning at the University of Arkansas at Fayetteville where she also earned her undergraduate degree and both masters degree in higher education and counseling. Jill has been an active member of the state, region, and global associations for advising in her 18 years in the field. She is the provost guest lecturer for the university's first year seminar course and current chair of the advising high achieving community with NACADA. Jill, welcome as well.

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
 Thank you so much, Matt. 

Matt Markin  
So great to have you both here. What's been your journey into higher education. What's your origin story. And let's start with Barbara.

Barbara Smith  
Thank you, Matt. So my journey in higher ed started when I transferred to UTSA. I started I had the opportunity to go into my field of doing research, and I worked for a number of years in the research field, and I loved working with students, which is where I found my true passion. I worked with graduate students and undergraduate students in the lab that I was working in, which led me to the opportunity to find out more about advising. And so I became an academic advisor for my bio for the Biology Department back in the 90s, and I had a caseload of 1000 students, and so that's how it started, and then just really working and getting involved has led me to, again, constantly look at trying to improve the services and the support that is offered to the students, and as well as my, my journey to advancing that for the staff. So really looking at it, it takes, it's a village, and so really taking on that responsibility of looking and advocating at my institution for changes, and that was the simple as the first year, was just really advocating within the department of making a change to the curriculum so that students could graduate and not be missing a graduation requirement. And so from there, it just again, opportunities evolved. I became getting additional staff, combining our College of Science, whole advising unit, and then expanding that came director of a downtown Advising Center when we had campus, and then for our downtown campus, and then transitioning to the Executive Director of Advising for a number of years, and then to the executive director for our transfer and transition. I've always worked with transfer students and with colleagues at the community colleges that are our largest feeder and so really having that opportunity to focus on that more of my work here at UTSA now, specifically with transfer students and their articulation agreements and so forth. Thank you.

Matt Markin  
Jill, how about you? What's your origin story?

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
Well, I guess it could. I could say it started in 2003 when I graduated, or I thought I graduated, because two months after graduation, I got a letter in the mail that I was missing three credit hours, and I had been to two different advisors, had them both sign off, and unfortunately, that did not work out. So I had a job outside of higher ed for about two years, and then came into advise. 13 by way of admissions. So I came back to the UofA. I recruited for the UofA for about two years, and realized that high school was not my favorite group, but I did love the college age group, and I had decided this would have been my third job after I graduated with my undergrad, and if advising hadn't been what I loved, I was going to go to cosmetology school and do hair because I realized that I was over having bosses that didn't appreciate me or didn't really foster care, and lucky for me, I found advising, and it was amazing. And so in 2006 I became an advisor for our general College of Arts and Sciences, and I had languages and International Studies and Economics as mine, like Barbara, I also had roughly 1000 advisees at that time, and it was a bit overwhelming, but always enjoyable and exciting. I really enjoyed what I did, and that made it not feel like a job. In 2012 I moved over to our honors program within our College of Arts and Sciences, and started as a assistant director, went to associate director, and now I am the director of our honors and experiential learning for the college. And so honors has stayed the same for several, several years, but I've added on the charge of getting non honor students to also look at some of the things that our honor students do, so more internships, more research that maybe doesn't end in a thesis, you know, but still having the experience and more exposure to study abroad. And so that's really what I do in my current role. 

Matt Markin  
So I guess it's a good segue. And now you both have kind of touched upon your current roles. What would be like the, I guess, the day to day, and I'm sure it changes daily. But if you kind of could summarize a little bit more in terms of, like, what your roles entail, in terms of, like, leadership, how would you describe that? And maybe Jill we'll go to you first this time?

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
Sure, sure. So you're right. Day to day is different. This would be the first day that I've ever done a podcast. So that's definitely not a typical I have a staff that I oversee on a daily basis in my office of three professional advisors, so they are housed within our overarching College of Arts and Sciences, but they are physically in my space, and so I do a lot of check ins with them, daily, on their advising loads, on any kind of questions that they have. I also meet with a lot of our faculty on campus. So we have 19 different departments here in the College of Arts and Sciences, and so I will meet with faculty to discuss ways that we can better connect students to their departments and to their majors. I will also have student appointments. I, in my role, deal more with students that are having problems than students that are loving life and everything is going smoothly, so I have a box of Kleenexes, and I have gotten the distinct honor of knowing that students know when they come to me that there's a good chance I will, as my daughter says, look into their soul, and they will cry, but they always feel so much better afterwards. And so sometimes just getting that out is necessary, and then I might meet with a dean, or multiple deans or other partners on campus, like our study abroad or our Career Connections and student support staff. So that's in any typical day.

Matt Markin  
Barbara, how about you?

Barbara Smith  
Thank you. I always say, if like, Jill, this is my first podcast. Excited to do this. 

Matt Markin  
Well, hopefully you both don't regret this afterwards. 

Barbara Smith  
Day to day varies, obviously, lots of meetings, but also I support two teams. So I have the transfer and transition team and also the Fostering Futures team. So again, supporting both of those teams, the transfer team, we spend a lot they they see prospective students, current students that we have in special programs. We have an called an on track program for students who applied to you to say did but didn't meet our guaranteed or admission criteria. A. After going through holistic review. So those students are offered the opportunity to participate in the on track program, which they started the community college dually enroll, and then they can transfer if they meet those program requirements. So I have a team that the team supports them, but also prospective students. And so I spent a lot of time, you know, providing information to them, if they're if there's questions, we do trainings we but a lot of time is spent. Again, my time isn't is in meetings, but I do make sure I check in with my team on a daily basis. In some cases, that may simply be a quick teams, good morning GIF, to where or it may be physically stopping in having regular meetings with them, being that resource for them if they need that. I also am heavily involved with a lot of things at the university, so I, you know, work on answering inquiries that come in from the academic departments, where maybe they're trying to build more of a collaborative and so really trying to help them navigate some of the policies and understanding the policies and the can and cannot with regards to those policies and the transferability pieces. Working with, I'm also a co PI on the grant, and so really trying to work on that, those components of of the grants, getting that going in, then obviously, working with our community college partners, with those articulation agreements and transfer guides, and again, the the transfer team helps with that. The Fostering Futures Program, working heavily with the community. We've got students, prospective students who are still in high school, who might have be interested in UTSA. So if there's community events, ensuring that we've got coverage at those events, also helping those staff account of who are working with the coach, the coaches who are working with the students who are currently here at UTSA, who have a history of foster care and meeting their needs that could be approving requests for pantry purchases, emergency funds to help to support them with maybe their electric bill, things like that. And so really, it varies from day to day of what comes up. And of course, I still like to interact with students. So I do have some students that I meet with. They're more of the, how do you say, the referrals from administration, and so getting working with a few of of those students, so it really helps to give that pulse and, of course, ensuring reflecting wellness and well being for my team as well, by obviously showing that I get up and leave for lunch. For the most part that is, I go sit in the food court area and I listen to students. That's the best pulse that I can say I have of knowing what's on the students concerns and minds. So I try to make sure I do that at least once or twice a week, just so I'm hearing their what their focus is, their concerns and so forth, and then I can help provide that up to my colleagues in student success and the division, so we can work more collaboratively with student success and strategic enrollment areas to help again, ensure that we're meeting students needs. 

Matt Markin  
Well, definitely, respect to the both of you. I mean Busy, busy schedules. Every day is different. Lot on your plate, and I'm sure I'm going to ask you both about how you do your own wellness, but let's chat about like the staff you know, wellness and retention of academic advisors, advising professionals. It's, you know, been a topic that has been around for quite a while, but especially like during and even after the pandemic, that it seems that have increased in in people talking about and how do you deal with it? Now, I know like wellness and retention are, they're connected, but also kind of separate issues. But for this podcast, maybe we'll just kind of combine in terms of maybe how you answer this from your respective levels of leadership in administration, you know, what do you believe are maybe some of the key areas that maybe you all do already, or maybe should subscribe to that would support like the wellness, the resiliency, the retention of staff, especially with academic advisors. And I'll leave it up to who wants to start first on that one.

Barbara Smith  
I can go ahead. I think it is being, recognizing that and giving those opportunities. And sometimes that is, it may be you having to pause and give them, having that open door policy is the first piece listening to them. Whatever is. Is happening, giving them that freedom to know, like your door is open if they need to come talk to you about something, making that, reiterating the resources that you have at the university, if, for example, we have what's called Deer Creek, which is an employee counseling program. So again, helping with that, if that is something they need reminding them of, that it can also be saying, Hey, you just talked to me about this, this situation, and obviously it's got you very upset. It's four o'clock. If you want to go ahead and take and you don't have an appointment for the last hour, if you wanted to go ahead and take leave and leave early, you can do that or providing opportunities we do. We schedule more retreat type things at least once or twice a semester, where we get out collectively. We do things to celebrate one another. So when we have a success and big ones, I love to always celebrate is the simple ones, like birthdays. So we make sure we go out collectively as a team for to celebrate the birthday lunch. So it's, it's some of those little, little things that you do that again, I think, helps with the their well being, but also for that retention perspective of always providing that opportunity, that that you're listening to them that you're encouraging them and you're empowering them. I think that's the important thing is, is with the retention piece isn't making them feel empowered and and showing like you are you're there for them. You empower them. You trust them to do things when they come to you with the situation, kind of don't just give the answer, but ask, how would you address it? And again, that helps to give that empower, that that support that they need, which I think, again, helps with the retention, because then they want to learn more and do more. You know, I think, like I said, as far as the well being stuff, it's really to me, it's listening to them, it's giving opportunities every you know, we're required to have you 15 minute breaks, right, for four hours work, utilize that time, okay, you know, so having, if you have a common area where you can have coloring, you know, coloring books, other materials, other things like that, they can some people like to do, to relax. So providing those, ensuring that you do have that as a as an escape route for them, again, encouraging and participation in the university well being services that is provided, I know, like at UTSA, we have, they've now started a walking group. You also are allowed three hours of active time to take for well being, so encouraging them to utilize that for whatever it could be. And you know, for some it may be a physical activity. For others, it may just be having that science, being able to turn off their light for 30 minutes and sit in their room and take a, you know, in their office and take a quick nap or do meditation, also utilizing, you know, if there's concern about keyboards or things like that, ensuring they've given appropriate equipment, or if you have an ergonomics office, a health and safety office, finding out what are the some of those things that can be done to further support them could also be simple things as a riser so they can stand some as opposed to just sitting the entire eight hours or plus hours that they're in the office. So again, I think those are some of the things I would say that I've done.

Matt Markin  
And some of those simple things, some simple changes, can be a huge positive difference. So yeah, that's awesome. Jill?

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
Yeah. So a lot of the same things that Barbara mentioned reminding staff to take time, to take their actual time. You know, we all earn our vacation time, and we often feel bad for taking that. I know that I too can feel that way at times, because I feel like there's always going to be something that happens. I tell my staff all the time that there is actually no such thing as an advising emergency. It doesn't exist. There's nothing that is so terrible that we can't fix it the next day. And so I remind them of that and try to also empower them to put their boundaries up, of not checking their emails when they get home, you know, and supporting them if they do not want to have teams or their work email on their phone, because that's not something that they're expected to do. If that's something that makes them happy to take care of, like answering a couple emails here and there, that's perfectly fine. So giving them that autonomy to do that, my other real tenant that I follow is, if I see something, say something, and so not necessarily the negative, but to see if I see you doing something well, I want to praise you. I want to make sure that our Dean down the hall knows what you're doing. I want them to get some kind of recognition. We don't always have the ability to make sweeping changes and lower all advising loads down to 250 or, you know, 300 and so maybe there are things that I can't change, but one thing I can do is I can really celebrate you. I can make sure that you're taking time to take care of you. We also have an employee assistance program that allows faculty and staff to have counseling appointments free of charge up to eight every year. And so you can go every single calendar year and do that, and I encourage people to take time to talk to someone who is not in their day to day. I also really work on asking the advisors when they do come to me with and my door is open to ask them what they want. Do they want help or support? Because I can help them and I can fix the problem, or I can support them in their chance of fixing it on their own, and so really figuring out what it is that is going to be more appropriate, because sometimes they just want my support. They just want to hear that somebody in administration is paying attention and that I empathize with them. But ultimately they know what they need to do to fix it, and they just want my support within that. And also one of the things, how could I forget? I encourage them to do professional development, to remind them that they have a voice and that they are doing things that are innovative, maybe not to us because we've done them so often, but there are other institutions that maybe haven't done that, and so I really encourage them to get involved at the state the region, or in our global association and so figuring out ways to support them financially, so that that can be something that they can do and get themselves out of their their bubble at the U of A and make connections with other people across the US and beyond.

Matt Markin  
Which both of you have definitely made a lot of networking opportunities and connections across the board. So a lot of great tips. Now I want to ask you both this, a lot of great tips that that you've given already. Do you follow those tips? Like, what do you do for your wellness?

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
Do as I say, not as I do. You heard Barbara goes away from her desk when she eats lunch at least twice. So that's really good. I it's a constant battle. It is. It's a constant battle because I do want to be there for my staff. But again, I'll come back to there's no such thing as an advising emergency, and so I have to do some self talk to myself when I need to go for a walk. And maybe it's my 15 minutes. And if the weather is not in the 30s, I will go walk around campus for a bit, or if it is in the 30s, I'll just walk the stairwells and get up and move my body. So that's probably one thing I do, and I do a lot of coaching while walking around that helps me to get out of my space. But then also, I get a lot from praising and supporting my staff like it makes me feel good too. So it's kind of a win win, because I feel better knowing that they feel appreciated, and then they feel appreciated so they feel better. So that's probably the biggest way, and I do really try not to That's my mom calling sorry about that, and it's on Do Not Disturb. I do really try to not spend a lot of time on the weekends, on my email or doing things like that, if I can. So I do try to be very intentional about my time. 

Barbara Smith  
For me again, like I said, I try to there's many times where, you know, things overlap, and so I try to make sure, as you said, at least twice a week I'm out having lunch. But beyond that, again, I try to do that balance. I try. To ensure I also have fun along the way. So I try to do something that's going to brighten someone's day that day, as Jill said, it it helps to brighten my day. So it can be I maybe I walked in in the morning and I saw someone. I came in early and I see someone's already here. So I might say, stop in and talk with them for a moment. I might send a good morning gift if I'm not going to be able to see the team right away, just so that they know I'm thinking because I'm like, I want them, it gives me good energy. Or I might send a text message before I leave my driveway to a friend. So then when I get to work in the parking lot, and then I can see that they've usually have sent me a text message back, or if I'm having one of those kind of days, I'll just send a hi to someone, and I get a response back, and it just gives me that, that extra push I sometimes need to feel that I also spend a lot of time on the weekends. I do not focus on work. I try to get everything is done as much as I can. If there's something that I'm have a moment and I'm like, I will like it comes up in my mind on the weekend, I will work on that on Saturday. But, you know, I also have a teenager, so does International ski shooting. So going to practice with them being outside. I love the outdoors. And so just having spending that time out there, just watching his growth, and also not being that helicopter mom to him as he's a, you know, freshman in college this year, and so trying to balance that out. 

Matt Markin  
And I guess Barbara, let's, let me ask you this, you know, kind of going along with being an administrator in your leadership position, what do you feel like or, you know, what? What do you face as an administrator, as far as, like, any challenges, and/or, what have you also learned about yourself as an administrator and leader? 

Barbara Smith  
I think the challenges that I face sometimes is, of course, everyone faces is budget. You know, there's only so much the budget, and so having limits on those budget and making those priority decisions of where to spend the money, so to speak. But what I've learned about myself is sometimes I may have ideas that others are not ready to hear or embrace, and I got to be okay with that. So let me plant the seed and leave it. It may not come to a fruition for a year or two years, but I can feel comfortable knowing that I was a part of that. And so again, I think that's that's been the thing I've learned most about myself is like, don't, don't be afraid to give it, put an idea out there or a suggestion, and if they don't take it okay, but, you know, feel that satisfaction when it does come to fruition, you know? So I think that's what I would I would say.

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
Well, I think that we all face some of the same challenges when it comes to being administrator in higher ed, especially in advising. One thing I've learned about myself when working as a administrator is that my attitude goes a long way in helping to set the tone for my staff. And we can all get flustered when things don't go well or when we feel overwhelmed or burdened, but we can control one thing, and that's our reaction. And so even if I feel flustered or a little stressed, I can still control the way that I react, and that's something that I can kind of help set the tone for my staff, that again, ultimately, I want to be their biggest advocate, but in that sometimes I need to take the brunt of a student's aggression or dissatisfaction. The same thing can happen with the faculty and staff that we work with if my staff are not being treated in a way that I believe is appropriate, I make sure that I support them, because ultimately, if they are unhappy or if they don't feel safe in their role, then there's no way that the office is going to work the same way. So I've learned that there are just certain things that I can help them by just being me and. Trying to support them in those ways that I really didn't necessarily know that that was a strength. I've always known people have come to me and they they share concerns and struggles, and so I think that that's probably one of the reasons that I got into academic advising in the first place was because I want to help in whatever way that's going to be. So that's what I do with my staff. Too. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah, it's like a quote I've heard before. It's like life is a 10% of what happens to you and 90% of how you deal with it. Last question I want to ask you both is kind of looking at the imaginary crystal ball, if you will. It seems like every year there's always some new challenge that that's happening, that an institution has to face, or higher ed in general, from your areas, what do you believe might be some of the biggest challenges, or even biggest opportunities for for academic advising?

Barbara Smith  
It's the plus and the minus. It's the makes it better, but it also makes it worse. And that is technology. I think we see a lot of that with in advising, in higher ed. I mean, in some ways, it makes it easy. There. We can utilize technology to make things more accessible for the students. But then there's also in our jobs, maybe it's we want to send a communication, but we really need to tweak it, and so utilizing AI to do that. But then on the other side of it, technology also, I think, hinders us, because you lose that connection, that relationship, building, that rapport that you're building with this, with the students and and also with faculties and other members that you work with. And so I think that is, like I said, it's a blessing and also a curse. So I think that's one of the challenges that we face in higher ed, I think also with our students, and I think the other one for me is the well being of our students, and helping them cope on it. And I think that weighs heavy many times, on our on our staff, and helping to ensure that we're in that field, and understanding the the impact, and advocating to our leadership and our administration about our roles and advising and that it it's so much more than maybe what they envision and how that has evolved. And I think that's that's, again, a challenge that I think, as a leader, we face, and I think overall in higher ed, I think that's something that we've got to make sure we're equipping our advisors with that, but also our faculty, especially those who are new to the coming out, and They're, you know, they're new to the institution, their tenure track, and really, you know, they're focusing on trying to do their research, but then they've got this student who's in crisis, who has reached out to them and really knowing, like, Okay, here's a resource, or, you know, making that referral to the advisor, who can then help get them connected to that appropriate resource. So for me, those are the biggest challenges that I see for higher ed and for advising.

Jill Geisler Wheeler  
Well, as far as the challenges, and I don't, I'll preface it with I don't have an answer for this, but I do feel like one of the biggest challenges for higher education currently is making higher education something that people see value in. There are definitely jobs in which your specific degree is required. I happen to work in a college where that is not the case. So the College of Arts and Sciences, we have everything from our fine art majors to physics, so everything in between, and making sure that there's still value in higher education with the increase in everything all costs. What is it that we are offering? And how are we becoming something that the recent grads really want to do and see that as more than just a check box? So I think that that's something that is going to be something we're really going to have to struggle with in the future of their many, many careers that you don't need a college degree in order to be very successful. And you know, what is it that we offer that makes us different? That's not what we were doing 50 years ago. And so maybe our inability to. To pivot and change as quickly as the the world around us can sometimes be something that is beneficial. We've had a really long run, a really good stay, but it also means that we're missing out on a lot. You know, we're not using AI to its fullest advantage at some points because we're afraid to embrace it. There definitely is the possibility of losing some of that connection by utilizing that and so I think a lot of times, at least at my institution, we just prefer to ignore it and act like it doesn't exist. And then what's going to happen with our students once they do leave the walls of our institution and other individuals know how to use it properly. So you know, what are we doing to create success for our future graduates as well.

Matt Markin  
Only time will tell. Time will tell. But Barbara and Joe, we've reached our time on this particular podcast recording. I really appreciate you both being on the podcast today and sharing your insights, and I know listeners are going to enjoy as they finish this interview and have a lot to jot down, lot of notes. So thank you both so much for being on the podcast. 

Matt Markin  
Our guests right now are Dr. Todd Chambers and Ryan Scheckel, both from Texas Tech University. Dr. Todd chambers is the assistant vice provost for academic and career advising at Texas Tech as part of the Academic Innovation and student success team. He provides leadership and support that contribute to the academic success and positive student experiences with the goal of advancing strategies in the areas of academic and career advising. Todd, welcome.

Todd Chambers  
Hey, thank you. I really, really am appreciative of this opportunity, and definitely a fan of of you. So I really appreciate this opportunity to kind of be on with some rock stars. 

Matt Markin  
Well, you're a rock star in my book. And we also have Ryan Scheckel, who at this point, does he really need an introduction on this podcast? But just for the heck of it, Ryan has been in academic advising since 2002 working with students from exploratory to declared first gen to legacy and from fine arts to pre health. He serves in leadership roles at both the state and international levels, and his professional interests include advising, history, theory and philosophy. A graduate of Texas Tech. Ryan's academic background includes studies in human development, public admin, leadership and higher ed admin. Ryan, hello there. 

Ryan Scheckel  
Thanks, Matt. It's always funny for anyone who's ever had a chance to have their bio read live and sit through it. You're like, I chose those words. A while ago, but you know, I'm thrilled to be back, to be talking about advising administration, especially from that perspective, we all wear so many different hats anyway, whether we're a primary role advisor or a faculty advisor, and so it's nice sometimes to put a hat on that I wear for my day job. 

Matt Markin  
So Todd, you know, we heard a little bit about you from your bio, but can you give us a little bit more? What's been your journey in higher ed? What's your origin story? 

Todd Chambers  
Sure, it's, it's, I'll try to be as use the condensed version as possible. But I started teaching at Texas Tech as as a faculty member in the College of Media and Communication in 1999 and did sort of the traditional tenure track route, and did the whole tenure thing. Served as a department chair for a department that has gone through a couple of name changes. We merged with another department, so I was department chair for two different academic majors. And then, I guess, little more than 10 years ago, I've went into the college administrative ranks where served as Associate Dean for Undergraduate affairs in our College of Media and Communication. And then just a two and a half years ago, I guess, stepped into this role, which was a newly created position at Texas Tech to serve as an assistant vice provost for academic and career advising. And so the journey has has been where from a boots on the ground, day to day academic advisor. That wasn't my position, but as a advocate and someone who was involved in academic advising from the and I say this because many of your listeners probably have experience in this when I first started teaching here at Texas Tech, we had these massive because, you know, we had one academic advisor in our in our in our college, and we had these mass advising sessions, group advising sessions for one weekend a semester. And so you pack up an auditorium with all the students, and we faculty members would go help our academic advisor, and you'd sit and talk to students and that perspective, but then, you know, from a graduate student perspective, have have been able to serve as an advisor for too many to count grad students, master students and PhD students as well. So it's been, it's been a wide variety when in my role as Associate Dean, that's where I really started trying to learn more and focus more on the academic advising piece from a unit wide perspective, and really started seeing some so You know, all the different challenges that academic advisors face on a on a day to day basis, but also a semester basis, at a yearly basis. And so it's been, it's been an interesting journey, and then transitioning into this role, have learned so much about all the different campus initiatives related to advising. We're a decentralized campus, and so it's been really fascinating to see how the different models work, and try to identify the opportunities for improvement, but also opportunities to enhance and empower units that seem to be rockin and rolling. And and let's keep growing this thing. So it's been a it's been a fun journey. It's been, I'm starting year 27 in in this game called Higher Education, and can't say I'm winning, but it's been fun playing. That's for sure. 

Matt Markin  
You've very much been a product of Texas Tech. So do you feel like you've grown up there?

Todd Chambers  
Yeah, I did my I did my undergrad here, and was a four time degree changer, but it was all in sort of the area of media and comm and and our college wasn't an independent college at the time when I was here, mid 80s. But did my undergrad in journalism, ended up with 44 hours of political science courses because I really thought my journey was going to take me into law school. But somewhere down the road I got involved, I guess is when I was a sophomore in college in radio, and thought I had long, flowing, cool hair, you know, and really wanted, I said, Well, I probably could go Law School. I'm gonna be a rock and roll DJ the rest of my life. And, and, yeah, you know. But then I did my Master's at Tech. Really got fired up in my undergrad because of my academic advisor, who told me about a special opportunity to take a independent study course that would help me with my degree plan. I didn't realize this at the time, but she had picked up on the fact that I was really interested in political science and and I told her at one point in time about how that I really enjoyed the research methods class and so she partnered me with our director of the Institute for communications research here, and he and I worked on a couple of research projects while I was an undergrad. That really kind of got me fired up about research. And so I ended up coming back for a master's in the area of meeting, communication research, and my master's thesis chair, who's my who is my mentor? The day after I defended my thesis, he moved to the University of Tennessee, and then I followed him to continue working with him. That's where I ended up doing the PhD. Had no plans to come back to Lubbock, Texas, but lo and behold, in January of 1999 my wife and I came back and started teaching and and it's been, yeah, like I said, It's been 26 years, and kicking off year 27. 

Matt Markin  
And Ryan, I know that you've been on the podcast, I can't count the number of times now, but it's been a couple years since you've shared your story. 

Ryan Scheckel  
I'll say for sure, in all deference to our colleagues at other institutions, if you're going to go to a UT, the one in Tennessee is the right one to go to. But no, I was the first gen student. My parents didn't go to college, so this institution where I continue to work is also, I went for my undergrad, and there's a lot of the assistance of my advisors in the College of now, Health and Human Sciences, just, you know, not being the kind of folks who are like, you're not doing this right, but instead being the kind of folks who are like, let's figure this out. And you know, I was the undergraduate student who was at an advisor's desk, fourth day of class, not registered for anything. And along the way, I met some people, including my wife, Beth, who, you know, really helped me aspire to a better approach to my undergraduate degree. Finished a degree, taught for a couple years in the correctional system. But when I was looking for something different, I had a friend who was working in advising here at Texas Tech and, and I was taking some coursework for history certification and working as a part time summer advisor. It's a model that continues in our unit with finding folks to assist with what we call Red Raider orientation, but summer orientation and, and that was when I was like, Yeah, this is a this is an educational role that I really, really appreciate. And so I started working in what is known as explore here on campus, but it's the undecided exploratory office. The undeclared student was who I worked with, did some first gen stuff, some pre law stuff along the way, but moved into the school of art for almost 10 years before an advising administrator position opened in where I am now, pre professional health careers. So somewhere around 2013 which is about five years into my time in the school of art or so, I had a director there who said, like, what is, what does the future look like for you in our school? And I was, you know, I was someone who would go to conferences here or there, engage a little bit here or there, but I was realizing, if I was going to make the most of this opportunity, there was going to be more that I did. So I started my graduate degree, which was interdisciplinary, higher ed, leadership and management, and then started being involved more in conferences, both, of course, the International or annual conference, but also state conferences and that sort of stuff. And so got involved really heavily in 2013 of doing this all the way as a professional and aspirational role. 

Matt Markin  
Thank you both for sharing your stories. And you know this is an administrators panel. So one of the questions I have for you is a topic that's talked about a lot, especially over the last few years, has been Wellness and Resilience of academic advisors, academic advising professionals. So from your perspective, levels of leadership and administration, what do you believe are some of the maybe key areas that you all do or should subscribe to, that would support the wellness and the resiliency of you know, academic advisors and your staff. So whoever wants to start that.

Todd Chambers  
I'm gonna let Ryan kick kick this off, and because I think he does a marvelous job watching him, I think on a day to day basis.

Ryan Scheckel  
Well, appreciate that. The thing that I can say from like, I directly supervise advisors, right, recognizing that Todd's role is different, and their administrators roles who are different, the ways that you affect the advisor, health and well being, retention, resilience, conversation is going to look really different. I mean, I have a day to day opportunity, maybe a moment by moment, or student by student, opportunity to be a bit of a buffer, to be a sounding board, you know, as what people might think of as a personnel manager or something. That role is for an advising administrator cannot be understated. And I think it's important to note that I pursued an advising administrator position, not for that reason. I pursued an advising administrator position as something personal, you know, part of my development, part of my journey, knowing, you know, what my colleagues and other advising roles were going through, what I went through as an advisor. Sure, having that context, I certainly wanted to work with a team, you know, not be an advising office of one anymore, was part of what I talked about when I was pursuing this role. But I didn't fully understand the value of a good manager, somebody who can just be there in the moment to be responsive, to provide context and perspective, to help people who are going through the ups and downs of human information work to just be okay with it. I think there are folks right now who are having experiences as advisors and they they have their walls, maybe they have the next student. Maybe they'll have a chance to talk with somebody across the hall who doesn't really do advising, but, you know, kind of gets it. And I just over the nearly 10 years I've been in my position, I've come to really appreciate the day to day role advising administrators can play to be helpful. You know, certainly I make decisions from time to time about allocation of resources, attention priority that can help foster advisor wellness and well being, which hopefully would lead to retention and and then feeling like they can persist in this role, and that'll be things like, you know, how many people are going to do? When are we going to do it? Are we going to take this on right now, I have a little bit of a gatekeeper kind of role as well for, like, the organization's resource management, to some extent, but I think in a third way, the way that I can influence this advisor wellness conversation is to make sure it's always upfront as a priority. You know, there's lots of ways that people can feel valued and included, the ways that they can take care of themselves, the way we can take care of them as an institution. And it's not ever going to be just one, but I can tell you, as an administrator, if it's not at the top of the list, it's going to be hard for the other priorities to be reached. And so, you know, just maintaining sort of a philosophy of advisor wellness and advocating for them when student activity, institutional dynamics aren't advocating for their own wellness. Just a simple example is we had a change in schedule because of weather on an orientation day, and things got pushed later because of a safety delay, which I appreciated, but I had to say just outright, I know this changes your schedule. Don't skip lunch, you know, just something simple like that as and I could have said, you know, let's push through this and let's get it all done. And, and I was like, but wellness is going to be a top priority for me, making sure that they feel that they can do this work, that they can be their best and not get burned out. Is has multiple implications on the individual to the organizational level.

Todd Chambers  
Yeah, and I want to echo from an organizational perspective, I know one of the things that what we're trying to do at Texas Tech University. But of course, you go to NACADA and you go to other conferences, obviously mental well being and just well being in general is such an important topic, and has been for a while now. But what Ryan said, I think is very important, because I think it's at the organizational level, it's easy to say, All right, so we're going to do some programming and some workshops for hey, here's some well being techniques. We're bringing in a guest speaker for a lunch and learn to talk about this. And here's how you can do this. But I think what Ryan said is so important that we all need to remember is that it's just be present and listen. I think that that's the very first step in what we do. Doesn't matter if it's co workers, colleagues, from that perspective, doesn't matter if you're the director or an associate director. Doesn't matter if you're the provost or an assistant vice provost or vice provost. You know, just be there and be willing to listen, because, because I think that's one of the things I've found in in this position, learning pretty quickly, you know, overall, looking at across, you know, the data of all of our academic advisors, how diverse and how all the different backgrounds that people have, how long someone has served in advising, versus another person who's been in the role for, you know, 25 years or so, you know. And one thing's at Tech and I suspect this is very similar, looking at how many of our academic advisors have credentials of some kind, whether that be a master's degree, it's a industry certification, PhD and Edd, and looking at that, and then being able to celebrate that with them, and make sure that their story is told up the chain, I think has, I think that's one of the things that, from a personal perspective, is one of my priorities, is to make sure that our successes as advisors and as an advising community at Texas Tech making sure that's present and and in front of the provost, in front of the President, and hey, here's what this, here's what I advise. So I think things like that can help that feeling of like, hey, you know, someone's paying attention to what what we're doing, because, because what we do is, is extremely important in this, in the Student Success piece, but, you know, I think and Matt, you, you've talked about this before, but, but I know Ryan has, has researched this, and you look at the history of advising, and again, you think about my experience, where there's one advisor, and. And that that advisor did, wore a lot of hats, and they still do. But now then we've, we've evolved into higher education culture where we have teams. And so the challenges are not just personal, they're interpersonal from a mental well being. So so what happens to one team member can impact the entire team and so. So you also have to think, all right, so what can we do from a mental check on on the individual, but you've also got to think about, what can we do to help build up the team as well, and then you spread that out across a large campus, and you're trying just to create a culture, you're trying to change a culture, you're trying to do all those, but you still have to make sure that those individuals are taken care of. Had to make sure those individuals are heard and that their needs are being met as best as you can.

Matt Markin  
Oh yeah. I mean, so much, I would want to say, I know we only have a short amount of time with this recording, but I mean, just what Ryan had mentioned about being immediate supervisor to the advisors, and if there's a slight change, you're telling your advisors, still do lunch, because you know there's going to be some. They're like, I'm just going to push through. And now I'm starving, but I'm doing it for the students, but knowing they need to take care of themselves as well. But Todd, I appreciate when you're talking about moving things up the chain, because so many times you'll hear from other individuals. I'll hear it at conferences. It's always things just trickle down the chain and nothing gets reported back up regarding the successes of the staff that are on the front lines, doing the work, but also, you mentioned about like, making sure you're taking care of the individual. Because if you're at a party and everything's positive, one individual can suck the energy out of a room, you know, but you never know what that person is actually going through. So it's always good to check in on the staff, on your individuals. But, you know, kudos to both of you and your administrator roles in doing that work to help your staff, which also then helps the students, which I think is a nice transition to this question. You know, student success, it's a term that's a buzzword that's used quite a bit, but for students to be successful, you know, we try to look at what their needs are. Have there been any innovative ideas or practices that you've implemented, or your teams implemented in your area, or have been a part of that addresses student needs?

Todd Chambers  
I think, at Tech and that's breaking down silos. You know, when again, I think we just like any historical timeline. I mean, we could, we could look at so many different things, you industrial revolution, all this, all the stuff, but you look at the evolution of higher ed and, you know, student success had always been in all these different buckets. And one of the things we've tried to do at Texas Tech is, is we've tried to really connect the buckets and break down as many of the silos as we can, you know, and obviously, there are technology, there are platforms out there, and we've, we've partnered with the company, and we're really building up from scratch, a one stop shop, basically for when you if an academic advisor has a meeting, and then all of a sudden, their entire success team can see, you know, kind of what's happening with the student financial aid advisor can look, you know, student business services, the Career Center, we've got a student success specialist model now as well that that's helping students succeed, but we're all one team and and just trying to break down, break down, the different silos that have existed for years, decades, and so that comes with challenges, right? And it comes with the sort of, well, this is my area. Well, no, it's us. We're all in it. We're all part of a student's success, but then also balancing the reality that, for example, an academic advisor has expertise in that student's discipline and and being able to balance all this, you know, I think that's a unique challenge as well, but it's so important that we do balance it. And again, appreciate that. Hey, while we're breaking down these silos, your bucket still important, we just need to make sure that you're connecting to the other buckets. And so I think that's one of the things that we're trying to do at Texas Tech that's innovative, and again, all in the name of student success, because that's why we're here. You know, Ryan, I appreciate your your Matt, are you a first gen student as well? I am. Yes. Yeah, I am too. You know, grew up in a time when son of a cotton farmer and my mom, she didn't anyway, she was stay at home, mom and all that. And now that that's changed, right? And even though we still have a lot of first gen students coming in, we have a lot of first gen students who are working in the higher ed space and and that experience that needs to get shared out in broadly so anyway, I can keep rambling. I let Ryan share his innovative approaches so well.

Ryan Scheckel  
When I, you know, saw this question again, I have a what might be thought of as an advising office or departmental perspective on ideas and practices. You know, I am the kind of person who it's hard not for my brain to shift off immediately to the next idea or the new shiny thing or whatever. But after I started to learn what it meant to be an advising administrator and to be a manager of people, I realized that our advisors, you know, while they had an expertise, it was usually one that was developed on the job. And, you know, occasionally, occasionally someone will have a background in it, or there'll be a great framework that already exists. But we didn't have an advising curriculum of any sort. We didn't have any specific outcomes, and so I could see that that was just a barrier to our efforts to communicate the expectations for pre health students specifically that would lead to success. We were we were absent of a consistent framework and and so over a couple of years, we conducted some research multiple ways, with professional schools, reviewing students from Texas Tech who were admitted to professional schools, looking at the professional competencies models and the disciplines that our students intend to enter, both professionally academically, we analyzed themes and like big nerds, we built a periodic table of elements that like and it has a cultural context for our students, but we identified 15 elements that we felt would help our students become not only numerically competitive when they apply to professional school, but also narratively compelling. So on one way you have this idea that innovation and efforts to improve student success can have like institutional perspectives through technology and culture building, but there's also a way to innovate just through ideas, just conceptually and and I found that particularly salient as an administrator, I also do a lot of our recruiting, you know, talking with prospective students and their families. And one it helps me differentiate us from other options for students, but also for our advisors, when they're talking with a student and they can see evidence of success in an area, they can celebrate that. And it's not just their opinion. You know, a student might be doing excellent work with their professional engagement, which is one of our elements, and they can say that. And likewise, if a student isn't doing as well in a particular area, it's not just I'm unhappy with you as an advisor or I think this isn't okay as an advisor. This is our advising framework. And so when I've had advisors come and go, new people join the team. People find other roles at the institution. A lot of times they find that sort of higher level of authority, that framework to guide their advising practice, to be one of their favorite things, to just give them a grounding in something that is in lack of a better term evidence based. And I think that that if folks are like, I don't know if I have opportunity to influence the conversation, to break down silos, to adopt the technology platform, but in my department, maybe I could start with a consistent framework that we all operate within, that we have essentially an advising curriculum with clear, defined outcomes. So we can start standardizing a bit more, being more consistent, so folks can find their strengths within something reliable. 

Matt Markin  
You're talking about consistency, but at the same time, things are always changing, and one of the things that's changing a lot is technology. A lot of it discussion around artificial intelligence and other other new technologies. So at Texas Tech, how is AI and other technologies currently being used, and at the same time, how do you see AI transforming, let's say specifically, academic advising? 

Ryan Scheckel  
I will at least speak to what I'm. I certainly listen to your podcast know that I'm always interested in what's going on with the technology side of things. And our interview with an AI was an earlier episode, but I know this. Students are using it, advisors are using it, faculty are using it, but I don't know that we're talking about it. I have a colleague. There's a centralized application service for medical, dental and veterinary schools in the state of Texas. And Enrique Hasso is an administrator, a long time administrator, with that group, and he was working with a colleague, another institution to conduct focus groups, really, to collect information about how students are using AI, and they're being innovative. They're doing a lot of interesting things that are not what I would necessarily say start from a place of academic integrity concerns. And so I think that one of the things that we do in our office is when we are doing AI assisted things we share that we talk about, you know, the results? You know, how helpful was it? How much did I have to edit, you know, how far down the road did it get us to solving a problem? Those sorts of things there, to the best of my knowledge, are no directly AI assisted technologies that our advisors are using that are in a kind of automated sense. You know, we certainly have technologies we use and and so from a departmental approach, our technology and AI specific conversations are open there. I guess you would say they have a little bit of skepticism, but they're not negative. They're evaluative. We're trying to take a critical eye for what can be beneficial, but also what are some of the risks, particularly for our students and those sorts of things. But, but, yeah, we we talk about it, and we share ideas, and when we learn something in particular, we really like to have that as part of our our culture in the office is to share our learning with each other.

Todd Chambers  
Matt, I'm gonna have to do this. I might have to go back through your podcast, and, and a year ago, and perhaps 18 months ago, listen to different guests that you've had and, and when a question about AI comes up, and, and I think 18 months ago, we all would have been like, oh my gosh, What? And, and Ryan's exactly right. I know at Texas Tech, you know, we're talking about it and, and I know at the institutional level, there's been for two years, we've been talking about the developing of of of in enhancing chat bots and to, you know, to help answer student questions, you know, from a 24/7, so on and so forth. But one of things we've learned is that you know a lot, you know AI is based on what information it can pull and so, so, so, yeah, you can trust your organic you can trust a chat bot to come in and say, yes, please search all the web pages available at your institution since 1996 and it will do A great job pulling a lot of different information in there. So it, I think, I think one of the things you know, especially from that chat bot perspective, that we've all got to be really cognizant of, is, is it's, you know, it, it is that input, you know, what is the AI pulling from to provide you with with with that information. But no doubt, you know our It's where our students are, and at the institutional level, we are talking about, how do we how do we talk about, we've got sessions, we've got an office for advising excellence here at Texas Tech. And it's, it's focused on, you know, building community, but also professional development opportunities for for our academic advising community and and we've got aI segment scheduled to talk about kind of how we're, how we are utilizing it, but it's at Texas Tech we're trying to move as fast as we can with it, but, but again, you know, just with all the different options available, it's sometimes it's difficult to keep up. But now the conversation is happening. And, you know, I think it's everything from chat bots to, how do we how do we utilize this? Not to be efficient from an efficiencies perspective, but to think about that question. When a student at 10 o'clock at night has a question and there's no one to answer the question, I think that's the piece that we always got to remember with everything. What? What does a student see? What is their perspective. It's not our perspective. It's what that student perspective is. And so I think my hope is we're all approaching it, that that that way.

Ryan Scheckel  
And one of the things I'll note or remind Dr. Chambers about the office of advising excellence, and his role is relatively new, as he's mentioned at our institution, they launched in the fall semester, two advising certificates for our advising community, one of them on holistic advising as a concept to inform practice. The other one was AI in advising, and so it's evidence of the role that technology plays in the work that we do, some would say advising work is mediated by technology, which has its own effect, but but the decisions made at the institutional level about priority and programming, including this idea that students are whole people, and that technology has an effect on all of US, is evidence in that second, I will note that we are in a state where we have very specific policy directed from the governor's office about which technologies we can and cannot use. That is its own kind of mediation on the nature of advising practice as an educative effort.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, so definitely trying to maneuver around a lot of that, but seems like a lot of proactive stuff going on as well. So great job for that. Now, I know you don't have a crystal ball. However, I'll still ask this question, the future of academic advising. You know, given the evolving landscape of higher ed, you know, everything from enrollment cliffs to budget, what do you believe are maybe some of the biggest challenges, or even the opposite, biggest opportunities for academic advising?

Ryan Scheckel  
Well, again, speaking of our state context, and I think that's one of the things that I've enjoyed so much in my time, broadening my involvement in the advising community beyond the borders of my campus is learning that, you know, my context isn't necessarily the same as everyone else's having that reinforced multiple times, but we have, you know, a dynamic with institutions in our state where their enrollment practices are changing, which will influence enrollment realities for other institutions, including our own. And so I think while, yeah, it's difficult to predict academic advisors, I would say would benefit from using it's a Franklin COVID concept. It's the circle of influence. What can I do something about? And then the bigger circle of concern. There's a lot of things that concern our work. The question is, what can I actually do about that? And I think on a day to day basis, if you're at all concerned about enrollment at your institution and its effect on your livelihood, be an excellent advisor. If your institution is known for excellence in academic advising. Even Mark Lowenstein talked about this in 2013 more than a decade ago, he was a visionary, saying institutions can use the Excellence in advising at their institution to recruit to mitigate some of those enrollment concerns, to have an effect on the resilience and retention numerics that drive state funding models and so academic advisors are a part of the conversation, and the question is, what can they do to influence it? I think really being committed to excellence in your role is going to be the first step. Understandably, we have concerns, and we're not sure, but if you're doing your very best, a lot of those things, in sort of overly optimistic sense, will probably work themselves out. But on the day to day, you know, in my role as an advising administrator, when you know, when my advisors are able to lift their shoulders and their eyes and their heads a bit from the students and from the things immediately in front of them, they feel those concerns too, and being present, being patient, I think really adopting an aspirational mindset is one of the things that can help even out those ups and downs when we don't know there's a lot of people in if you take any history of higher ed class or or any higher administration class, people are often fond of talking about how the one constant in higher education is change. But sometimes it changes. It turns course, like a cruise ship you. Yeah, and so while everything is happening above decks and below decks, there's a lot of things happening. The actual trend line isn't nearly as abrupt as it might feel. And if that's one of the advantages that administrators have, is we can spend more time above that day to day fray and provide that context as much as possible. Provide access to data that gives us a bigger sense of the trend line and to be advocates for excellence and not be reactionary.

Todd Chambers  
One of the things that we have created at Texas Tech was, in the last couple years, has been an advising council that is representative of our advising community across the university, and the mission of that council is, is sort of focused on three C's, and that's, you know, communication, collaboration and connecting, making sure we're connecting those students, and I really think a big part of the future of advising is a place where all three of those C's intersect, where we're all coming together and breaking out of silos and being able to collaborate with a lot of different other pieces of this higher ed puzzle across campuses. I'm ashamed to say this my first NACADA was Portland a few years ago, but I think I have attended probably every single NACADA event you can attend almost since that time, from Summer Institute to, you know, two more annual conferences and things like that. And I was able to share at Pittsburgh this year just there was an executive track, I guess, or administrative track, that I found very interesting. Some of us had gone to a convention in Tempe with the university Innovation Alliance the week prior. And so coming into that Nakata this year, it was interesting to say, hey, we know we've got college presidents that go to their conventions. We know that you've got academic advisors that have NACADA you know, you've got the enrollment management folks that have their own professional association and their annual commission, and you've got the registrars, and you've got the financial aid people, and you've got housing. At what point can all these different places like come together, because we're all talking about the same things. You know, we're all talking about, all right, so how do we, how do we, how do we help our, you know, our professional staff members be more resilient? How do we make sure they're healthy? Hey, what about student success? What's the role of this, this, this. So we're all having these conventions. What I was so refreshed by is the conversation and the kind of this year of like, yes, we need to start pulling in all these sort of different organizations and different voices and put them together at the same table, because this is something we all got to work together on, because it's something that the collaboration piece can't just be within the academic advising community. It's got to be with the president's office. It's got to be with the budget office. It's got to be with financial aid. It's got to be so anyway, in my personal opinion, I think that's, that's, that's where the future advising is going to be is much more collaborative, and again, not forgetting our history or anything like that, but realizing, all right, here's the opportunity to grow and ultimately for our main purpose, and that's student success. 

Matt Markin  
Now you mentioned Portland being your first NACADA annual conference. Did you have a good time? Did that help you decide to go to the future NACADA conferences? 

Todd Chambers  
Heck yeah. Are you kidding me? 

Ryan Scheckel  
It was all because of the conference co chairs, too.

Todd Chambers  
Oh, really. Oh, see, I knew I knew it. I knew it. No, no, I it was, it was it was wonderful, you know, in my history as associate dean, we had, we all know this. I mean, funding for travel can be, you know, it's, it's something that all institutions face. You're like, all right, can we do it this year? And one of these we tried to do in media and calm, was to fund academic advisors to be able to go to a NACADA, you know, to go to a regional conference, to go to the National Conference, to just to try to get us in that midst. So it wasn't like I was unaware of the cause. Definitely was aware and tried to incentivize and. And things. That's another thing we've tried to do with our office for advising excellence. We've got a provost that is 150% supportive of academic advising and and I have yet, of course, Ryan's gonna go whoop, you know, but I've yet to go. It's not we hit. We don't have unlimited resources. But I've yet to go and be told no. We'll figure out a way to get our academic advisors to a conference like NACADA. We will find a way to make that happen with our office for advising excellence, we'll fund professional development grants every semester, you know. And so hopefully we're, hopefully we're, we're incentivizing that culture here at Tech. So

Matt Markin  
It's a perfect way to end this interview on such a positive note. And this has been a fantastic discussion between the both of you as administrators and your respective levels, I know listeners probably have gained a lot from from what you've said, so I really do appreciate Todd, Ryan, being on the podcast today. Thank you so much.