Passion for the Profession: The 5th Anniversary Episode - Adventures in Advising

Celebrating the 5th anniversary of the Adventures in Advising podcast, Megumi Makino-Kanehiro from University of Hawaiʻi at Mānoa interviews podcast co-creator Matt Markin about the history and continued relevance of the podcast, NACADA Involvement, and what’s next. Melinda Anderson from Achieving the Dream interviews Kyle Ross from the NACADA Executive Office about the direction of academic advising, his vision and goals, and his message to members as we begin 2025.

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hey, and welcome to the Adventures in Advising podcast. This is Matt Markin, and if you can believe it, this episode is celebrating five years of the podcast that started back in January of 2020. Did I think we'd get to five years over 100 episodes and over 200 guest interviews? Nope. So thank you to everyone who has been part of this journey, from each guest, each guest host, each of you listening, whether you've listened to one episode or 50 or every episode. This podcast was made for you, and this podcast has and will always be a free resource. So on today's episode, we have two interviews. Let's get to the first one, guest hosted by Dr. Megumi Makino-Kanehiro from University of Hawaii at Manoa.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Okay, well, to open, I just wanted to explain to listeners out there why it's so important that we are doing this interview. So I, like many other fans of the Adventures in Advising podcast, have repeatedly asked Matt to do an episode based on the podcast itself, kind of like an adventures in advising behind the scenes type podcast episode. But I have also been even more curious about the very, very hard working superhero behind the adventures, which I'll dub, "Super Matt:Behind the Mic." So I feel very honored to be the one to interview Matt, because I know that many others have encouraged him to do an episode like this, and I think that, like drops of water landing on the same spot over many, many years and wearing away the stone I was the lucky drop of water that was finally able to get him to say yes, we'll start off with a few questions about the podcast. For those who don't know when and how did adventures in advising start?

Matt Markin  
Yeah, well, thank you so much for giving and yeah, just to give a little context, you and a few others so including Ann Bingham and Marcedes Butler have asked numerous times throughout the years about having me interviewed, and I've always turned it down. I felt nervous to do it. I felt you should share everyone else's stories, and yeah, and then the last time that you had asked, I said, You know what? Maybe we'll do it, and let's save it for the fifth anniversary of the podcast. So thank you for continuously asking. And I really do appreciate you, Ann, and Marcedes as well. But yeah, the podcast when and how it started. So the official episode, first episode, went out January of 2020, but before that kind of going back to the NACADA international conference. And I think the last international conference they had was in 2019 in Belgium, and I was at the kind of welcome reception after the keynote. Didn't really know that many individuals there. Everyone seemed to be in conversation, so I kind of was just walking around and was headed, made a beeline, to head out and leave the welcome reception, where I ran into Brett McFarlane and started chatting with him. And then Colum Cronin knew Brett, and then we got introduced. And then Charlie Nutt comes up, talks to Brett, talks to us. Brett needed to leave. And then Charlie just says, You and column work together. And then walked off into the sunset, and Colum and I are just standing there looking at each other like, okay, I guess we need to figure out how we're going to work together. And we had an interest, common interest in videos and interviews. And then I had suggested, why don't we do a podcast? I don't know how to do it, but maybe we'll do it. We asked Charlie before we left the conference, and Charlie had said, you know, hold off on it. And few months go by. And then we all ended up at the NACADA Annual conference that year in October 2019 in Louisville, Kentucky. And then we asked Charlie again, hey, what about that podcast idea? And he said, you have my blessing. Go for it. Make it happen. He said, I don't know how you all could do it. Just do it. And that's kind of how Charlie is. So luckily, we did a few interviews, actually at the Louisville conference, and that ended up being the basis of the first two episodes of the podcast. So yeah, and we had no idea what we were doing. We kind of figured it out as we went along, trial and error. I kind of cringe listening back at those first few episodes, but it needed to happen for for the growth that happened with the podcast since then.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And what was the original purpose or intent of the podcast? 

Matt Markin  
Honestly, it was to share everyone's stories. You know, when, personally, when I think about when you go to a conference, it's like, you know how much engagement actually does happen between attendees. You know, you might go to a session and the presenter has a slide on their institution, their name and what they do there. But, you know, there's not really time to explain, like, anything more of their background. Or if you're at that session, you're sitting next to someone before the session starts. Typically, it's, what's your name? What do you do? Where do you work? And then kind of conversation ends there. I've always been interested to know, like, the why? What was someone's journey? What was their background like? How did they get to where they're at? You know, collaborations happen, awesome. But to me, it's always that personal aspect that's missing, and that's why, like with this every you know, usually the first question on most interviews of this podcast is, tell us about your your journey. Tell us about your origin story. Let's get to know you on that, on that personal level, and I just felt like there's so many stories to share in in higher ed that aren't being told. And I also wanted to bring in individuals that maybe they're not like the President or AVP or, you know, some have some high title or position. Let's bring in people that are on the front lines every day that maybe aren't getting the recognition or have experience and have knowledge that they could share with everyone. So that's kind of, you know, the basic purpose of it. But it wasn't until, you know, not too long ago, that someone was like, well, you also know this podcast can contribute to public facing scholarship and the professionalization of advising. I was like, Oh, I guess, I guess that that that could be true. So, yeah, it to me, it's also a way of having this professional development. You know, listening to these interviews, maybe there's tips and tricks that people can pick up on based off each interview and each topic that they can bring back into their advising practice.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Nice. So nice. And I know you've reached a ton of different milestones in your time with the podcast, but what milestones have you reached?

Matt Markin  
Yeah, no, great question. So this past June, 2024 podcast made it to its 100th episode. Wow, I never thought that we'd get to that episode for sure. But also that same month, the podcast reached over 50,000 downloads since, since the beginning, and with this going out January of 2025, this is also the fifth anniversary of the podcast starting so it is the gift that keeps on giving.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Well, congratulations. That's all so exciting. And it seems like I can't think back to a time when the podcast didn't exist. I feel like it's been here the whole time. And did you ever imagine in your wildest dreams that you would still be doing the podcast now?

Matt Markin  
Absolutely not. I mean, there was a time I did take, like, a three month break, and that was actually when I thought I was going to actually end the podcast, and that was with episode 75 back in January 2023. I had just gotten burned out at that point. And I was like, went to the extreme of like, all right, it's winding down. And I felt okay with it ending, but I didn't feel great with it ending. And Melinda Anderson was the one who said, okay, you don't need to jump to that extreme. Why don't you just, like, take a break and then think about it and see if you want to continue it. But she was like, you have so many other stories to tell, and if you need help, she's like, I'm here. And she's been great, because I've been able to lean on her as a guest host for multiple episodes. But the other day, I was looking at kind of like average lifespans of podcasts, and I guess that the average lifespan is about six months, and when you look at the average of like, number of episodes, it's about 50 episodes. But when you dig deeper, and kind of because the average doesn't really take into account, like, what the median number might be, but when you look at a lot of the podcasts, I guess they kind of fizzle out after like, 10 episodes or less. And I honestly thought this, when we started this podcast, we'd get like five episodes in, and then it would be done, because this was never, like a job responsibility like this is outside of what I do at the institution I work at. And lot of times when you have those, like, extracurricular activities or those hobbies, a lot of times they get put off to the side because other priorities, you know, take priorities. So to have this go on as long as it has, yeah, I never thought, never thought in a million years it would be where it's at right now.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Well, it sounds like we owe Melinda a lot. So if you see Melinda, please give her a hug, because she encouraged Matt to continue going. And we're so lucky that it is continuing to flourish. So this is, this is one of the things I've been dying to know. How long does it take you to create each episode, kind of from start to finish. And a related question, which is kind of our running joke, personally, do you ever sleep? Because I suspect the answer is no, or very rarely.

Matt Markin  
So I do sleep, maybe not as much as I should. And that's not to say that it's for sure. Because of the podcast, a lot of times I'll lay in bed and I'm just scrolling tick tock, and then it's three in the morning, and all sudden, I'm like, Yeah, I probably should get some sleep, because I got to wake up in a couple hours. Um, but in terms of like, like an average episode, let's say you have like, one guest on the episode, and a lot of these episodes have numerous guests, but for each interview, I would say I do about an hour of pre work, kind of really looking up the guest. And Have they written any publications that I can skim through, that I could base some questions off of I usually ask them for their bio, so I can skim through that and maybe pick out some some questions, you know, see what kind of activities they might be doing in other organizations like NACADA just I can kind of get more of that background and understanding of that person. The actual recording is about an hour recording session and then about an hour editing afterwards. Now, the editing I probably take more to an extreme than others. Usually, I'll kind of listen to see, is there any tech issues or audio issues because of the internet, with it being recorded, that I might have to take out. I look to adjust any volume depending on the guest or myself, on how the volume if there's any issues there, as well as taking out any, what I would call like dead space, as a guest might be thinking of an answer and then giving the answers, so kind of condensing those things down. So could I take a little less time editing? Sure, but it's about an hour there, and then I would say about 30 minutes to an hour of creating the social media posts that go along with promoting the episode and trying to find that unique 32nd sound bite that can be used for extra promotion. So maybe for like one guest, one episode, about four-ish hours. 

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Wow. And you have done how many? Let's quickly do the math here.

Matt Markin  
Well, I mean, this is a this would be episode 113, Now, granted, I do save an hour here and there when I have some guest host on, but I'm still have to be there for the recording session, editing and all of that. And then to think you have many episodes that have multiple guests on there. I don't know. I was trying to do a calculation the other day, and I would say probably over the last five years, it's at least probably 650 hours, wow, devoted over the last five years to it.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And we are so grateful for you. So please, listeners, if you've seen that, give him a hug as well, because he's, he really deserves it. I mean, it's amazing that it's lasted this long, that it's so strong that, you know, the viewership, not viewership, not readership, listenership. 

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
So faithful and and is learning so much, and so, yeah, we really appreciate all of that. In terms of adventures in advising, where do you hope to take it in the future? Like, what is the future direction you foresee for this?

Matt Markin  
Fantastic question. I'm still thinking about that I know for the podcast will continue. I mean, I already have guests kind of lined up, I guess host up over the next few months. I think for sure, we're going to hear from a lot, lot of new guests, and we're probably going to also have a lot more guest hosts this year, just to have more more voices. You know, in this this public scholarship, there'll be some new things happening. Oh, exciting. But for sure, the continuation of the podcast is at least going to continue on in 2025.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Ah, like the true professional you are. There's the teaser, folks. So keep on tuning in, because, yeah, it's new. New things are in store for us. So now we get to the fun part of this, and what I've done is set up kind of a lightning round late night show style, kind of rapid fire. So please provide one word or one sentence answers and the following 20 Questions are meant to give the list. Ownership a good picture of you very quickly. So we'll see how, how fast we can trailblaze through these. And then we have some other questions.

Matt Markin  
So I'll do my best. I will say this is as an introvert. This is like an introverts nightmare.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Sorry. And for those of you who are listening, I will tell you that Matt has no idea what I'm about to ask. He does not know what these questions are, so he's doing a very brave thing. So first question is favorite color?

Matt Markin  
Favorite color is blue. I don't have a particular shade.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Favorite subject in school growing up?

Matt Markin  
It was actually math. And I did major in math for a little bit before I changed it when I was a junior in college.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Oh, that sounds like it might be a story as well. Worst subject in school growing up in terms of you not liking it?

Matt Markin  
Oh, I would say probably writing. I've never been a good writer, something I had to work at so like my English classes, and especially in middle school.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Wow. Okay, all of the English teachers, English majors at heart, are going, Oh no, favorite movie or TV show.

Matt Markin  
I'll do both, actually. So favorite TV show, I will say, actually have two super favorite ones, so six feet under, and also the West Wing, at which the West Wing is, thanks to Kevin Thomas, he would always talk about the West Wing, and then I was like, All right, I'm gonna start watching the show. And love it. Favorite movie is actually, uh, Tom Cruise movie, uh, Top Gun.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Ah, okay, and favorite book?

Matt Markin  
Ooh, I had a feeling that question was gonna come up. Um, I'll have to get back to you on that one. Okay. Because, yeah, I do have some favorite books, but a lot of the favorite books I have her comic books.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Oh, that's That's great. That's great. Yeah, that's that, and that's totally fine. So, do you have a favorite comic book?

Matt Markin  
I do. I'm a huge Batman fan. I'm a Batman nerd, and the Knightfall saga from the 90s has got to be my favorite.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Cool and see now, a lot of Batman aficionados out there are like, Whoa, cool.

Matt Markin  
Favorite kind of food? Oh, it's got to be Korean food. Yeah, I love good kimchi. Got it

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Favorite holiday, probably Christmas, see, and this is kind of bad, because I want to ask you follow up questions, but it's not designed that way. So we might come back to something guilty pleasure, junk food, junk food, any specific kind of junk food,

Matt Markin  
Uh, sour candy, sour worms, yeah, if there, if there's a bag, if I bought one, I find one. Yeah, usually it's like seven servings in that bag, and I'll eat it in one.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Okay, your kryptonite?

Matt Markin  
Rapid fire questions where I don't know the questions ahead of time.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Oh, gosh, I love that answer. Okay. Your love language?

Matt Markin  
Oh, gift giving, gift giving.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
I am not surprised. MBTI?

Matt Markin  
Oh, glad. Oh, this has got a few years off. I n t j I think, or, you know, would be the letters, yeah.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Okay. And that sometimes changes. So yeah, if it was a few years ago, it might be good to take it again and see. Because, yeah, sometimes, like, experiences like this really change things up quite a bit, I can say, from personal experience. So you're a pet peeve?

Matt Markin  
Oh gosh, being late.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Model you live by funny. 

Matt Markin  
I was thinking about this actually this morning. Don't get ready. Stay ready.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Oh, nice, nice. If money were no object, I would...

Matt Markin  
want to be a producer of a TV show, maybe some trashy reality show.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Wow, see the secrets that are coming out right? Childhood dream career?

Matt Markin  
Oh, gosh, I had a lot of them. It was being everything from firefighter to a police officer to a teacher to a doctor. The last two were based off like, I would watch a TV show and then like, oh, I want to do this as my career.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Which is why we need a TV show about advisors. I. You know, pitching ideas here. 

Matt Markin  
Well, when you're asking future direction of the podcast, I don't know, maybe we'll add that to the list.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Yeah, maybe favorite vacation spot?

Matt Markin  
it's got to be Hawaii. 

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Yay! Thank you. Plug for Hawaii. Yes, the one thing you cannot live without,

Matt Markin  
I'd say friends and family and my partner.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Good answer, a hidden talent.

Matt Markin  
See that. One's gonna draw a blank. I'm gonna have to say, even though, like you may not see it as that, I would say the podcasting and and part of that is because I didn't really, actually consider myself a podcaster, probably, like, until about a year ago.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Wow. Really? Yeah, wow, yeah. I just, I thought you had been doing this up to the point that you met with Charlie, and it was like, Oh, you're already doing it. So why don't you continue? So this is, this is a revelation that are being revealed here. If you could pick any super power, what would you pick?

Matt Markin  
Another tough one? And this goes to because I like comics, so I'm thinking right now of like, every type of superpower that's out there, I'll say, like I used as a kid, I grew up watching the TV show The cartoon Captain Planet, and so now, kind of looking back at that, you know, one of the characters had a ring and his power was heart. And I would say that probably would be mine to spread love and joy and peace to everyone.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
That is so sweet, favorite superhero. I think you already might have answered this one.

Matt Markin  
Yeah. Well, so yeah, I could, yeah, I could take it a couple ways. If it's the DC superhero, it would be Batman. If it's Marvel, I would say it's a cyclops of the X-Men.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And and I just have to know why for both of those, like, what? What about them in specific? So, sorry, sorry, listeners, I'm breaking my own rules here, but I'm just, I'm so curious. Like, how, why those two?

Matt Markin  
So for Batman, very easy. He's someone that has no superpowers whatsoever, but his brain is his power, and he is someone that always is planning, and if he doesn't win a fight the first time, he'll evaluate and win it the next time. So he's always thinking ahead, so he's always like, 10 steps ahead of everyone else. And Cyclops is someone that is a natural born leader, strategist, and for some reason, a lot of people don't like him. A lot of fans may not like him as much and found him boring. I always found him the most interesting because he was able to lead a bunch of individuals that had lot of different personalities. 

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Wow. I'm glad I asked that follow up that that sounds consistent with, you know, don't, don't get ready, stay ready, right? And also just your whole philosophy about working with like shining the light on everyone, right, not just the famous or the well known, right, but everyone who is an advisor and everyone who has a story to tell. So, wow, that's so cool. So now, so, so you are safely past the 2020 question, lightning round. 

Matt Markin  
Went a lot better than I thought. It was glad I was able to answer the majority of those right away.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Well, no, no, you did. You did fabulous, actually. And, yeah, we got to learn a lot about you that way. So thank you. And so now let's move on to your everyday citizen disguise your job at California State University, San Bernardino, and from what I understand, you are an academic advisor in the advising and academic services office. You started at the University in 2002 as a student assistant in admissions, took a leap to academic advising, and have been an advisor for is it 11 years? Now?

Matt Markin  
11 years so this March will will be 12 years. Wow,

Speaker 1  
Wow. That does sometimes. Time certainly flies by. Yes, definitely. And what do you think is most misunderstood about advising?

Matt Markin  
Yeah, that that's a can of worms right there. I mean, if I had to think about it, I would say what's misunderstood, I think this is maybe why it can be best understood is we don't have a definitive definition of academic advising, so I think that can maybe lead to it, but I'm glad to hear that Nakata does have a group trying to figure that out, so hopefully soon we'll have a standard definition that. That everyone can use, because it is one of those things where, like, you ask 10 different individuals that are part of advising, you'll probably get 10 different answers. It might be similar, but you know, it's like, you've ever been to a party and you're meeting someone new, and you ask what they do, and they spend five minutes telling you what they do, and afterwards, you're like, I still have no idea what you do. I feel like that's where we're at with finding that definition of advising. So I think that is part of the misunderstanding. I think it's also still, even after all these years, you have many individuals that still see advising as this transactional piece and don't really know everything that is involved in it, which, again, could go to not having a definitive definition of advising. But I think what also can be misunderstood. I was thinking about this the other day was even those of us that have a pretty good idea of what advising is, and know what we do, and know just even the how much caring and empathy we have to have with our students on a daily basis. I think what's misunderstood is how much of that is draining doing it for a consistent amount of time, and we might underestimate the toll that that has on us as an advisor, especially if we go home with these stories and wake up the next morning with these stories and trying to help our students. I mean, a great example is actually you, Megumi, you know you, you have a story in the advising Pocket Guide. Advising is Forever through NACADA. And your story, I think, really lends itself to it, because you bent over backwards for this student in your story, and ultimately it ended up working out. But I think the whole idea of like, how much we have to give to our students in this type of profession, yeah, there's a toll to it, and we need to also hopefully find that mental well being for ourselves and taking care of ourselves. So, yeah, I think that might be it. And then maybe a last thing could be the maybe professional development or lack thereof. You know, you know, acada does offer a lot of great professional development, but if we're looking at like specific institutions, and what our institutions can give you know, advising is so different that some general type of professional development may be more watered down and may not be beneficial to advisors. So yeah, maybe those are a few things that might be misunderstood.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Wow, yeah, definitely you are a superhero fighting on behalf of of all of us in terms of shining the light on some of these things. So thank you. And what could, in your opinion, what could the world learn from advisors?

Matt Markin  
Oh, maybe the overarching, broad thing they can learn is that advisors, do you have an important role at institutions with students, that we do bring a positive difference to students lives and in a way, you know, we advising, or even advisors, are kind of the center point, in a way, or the hub for A student's like life at an institution, because I always see advisors as we're probably the most connected to almost every department on campus and maybe every resource on campus. We may not know all of them or have a deep relationship with a lot of these departments, but we know of them, and we know individuals in those offices and departments. So I think anytime a student needs help, we could be that go to person, because we could connect them. Even if we don't know the answer to something, a lot of times, at least, we'll know this is the person or this is the question to ask this department. So you know, I think we serve more of an important part than I think others might think we do. And I think if they kind of utilize us in that sense, and know that if we're having a lot of these conversations with students, we know what they're saying in appointments, you know we're connected to a lot of these other departments on campus, then maybe we can be brought to the table more and maybe brought to a lot more conversations. We might be asked more about our opinions and suggestions for student success and institution success. But you know, we're here. We give, we care, we want to see the best in our students, and we also want to see advising really become a profession.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
So there you have it, folks, I think we have the first few frameworks for the reality show on academic advisors that Matt will be putting together in the in the future. So you. You mentioned earlier about your book of advising stories. So you and via co edited a book of advising stories entitled sharing stories to ignite or reignite your advising. Could you please share a story about one of your most meaningful advising experiences?

Matt Markin  
Ooh, yes. I mean, like a lot of advisors, we probably have a lot of different stories. The ones that come to mind are like when I first started in advising, because all the many people know like when I first started advising, it came from admission. So I thought a lot of the transactional work that you know, I did in admissions, that's ultimately was what advising was, and it was a rude awakening when I started. So there's these two students that I initially met with in my first couple weeks and training at that time. And I think a lot can listeners can agree is like, there really wasn't much training. You kind of learned what you could maybe shadowed some advisors on appointments, and then you started seeing your students. So like I had one student where I met with them for advising, and I forgot to take off their registration hold, their advising hold, and we had planned out all their classes, everything I thought was good. They came back a week later and said, This holds still there, and the classes are now full. What do I do? And it was a very stressful moment, because I knew I had messed up. But luckily, we were able to find other classes. They weren't necessarily, I remember, they weren't necessarily the most ideal times, but the student, for the most part, was understanding of it, and eventually still came back at that point. We didn't have assigned caseload, so the fact that the student still came back to see me, I was like, okay, the student's giving me another chance. Awesome. Which makes me always want to give students extra chances too, because life happens. Things happen, but the other student, and this kind of shows how unprepared that, you know why training is important is. So the student was doing an advising appointment and ended up telling me that their parent had passed away, and, you know, they were failing their classes. And I kind of froze, right, you know, I don't what am I supposed to say? You know, I, you know, I ended up saying, like, I'm sorry, you know, I'm here if you need anything, but didn't even recommend the resource of, you know, even going to the counseling center. Like, that's how frozen I was in that moment, sure, but that student, too, still came back again, no case loads, but still decided to come back and see me. And, you know, ended up saying how much they felt like they like that I cared for them, which is why they wanted to come back. And luckily, when they came back, I was better prepared at that moment to share resources and really have more of an in depth conversation, talk about maybe withdrawing from, you know, the the some classes based off extenuating circumstances, things like that. But yeah, I mean, those experiences kind of taught me that, you know, yes, as much as we might mess up time to time, that students can see through us, you know, and if we're acting like we care, they'll know, but if they know we care, they'll know that too, and that's what's going to keep them coming back. But it was actually that last experience where I ended up purchasing the, this isn't a plug for Nicolet publications, but ended up purchasing the blue cover the academic advising approaches book, and started reading that because I was like, I have to do something to understand what my role actually is, and how to actually have these conversations with students. And I will say that was a book that really helped me out that year.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Yeah, it has so many different approaches that are super helpful. And again, this is fabulous. It's consistently coming back to as you were talking, I could see I remember your super power question and about heart, right? I mean, I think that's really at the sorry, not to it's at the heart of it. Sorry. That's so terrible, you need to edit that part. So sorry.

Matt Markin  
I think I'll keep that part in.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Oh my goodness. So we're gonna shift a little bit more. And I was just curious. Let's delve a little deeper in your involvement with NACADA. So one of the typical questions, which I think sometimes is folks don't always remember what they are. But do you remember what your four advising communities are that you signed up for when you became a member?

Matt Markin  
Yeah. So one was the PDR, the probation, dismissal and reinstatement advising community, and. And the other one was the undecided, exploratory students advising the community. Because at that time, when I started as advisor, our office worked mainly with students that were on at that time, we called that academic probation, but academic notice now, and we saw all students that were listed as undeclared or undecided. Since then, we've kind of merged into a centralized advising model, and now we see every single major but those two are the ones that have been consistent. And then, I don't know what the other two that I had when I first started, but I know, like, couple years after that, I ended up adding, like, the technology and advising community and the advisor, training and development community.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And that segues nicely. Like any good superhero, you seem to somehow be everywhere at once, doing good deeds at every turn. So in addition to the podcast and the sharing stories volume that we discussed, you are involved in the Online Education Advisory Board emerging leaders, and you also, you know, and I'm sure there is more that I'm missing, but I know for a fact that you very generously design very sought after metal pins that you share with friends, and when you said your you know your love language is giving gifts, I was not at all surprised, because you have this wonderful creative creativity and this desire to share with others. And I think you know that just that was one of the things that just amazed me so much about you when I first met you was that, wow, here's this person who I don't even know. And it's kind of although I guess we have met on various occasions, right? And you know, but it was just you were so your heart really shown through. And so that's one of the things that really impressed me the most, and that's what I wanted to the purpose of this to be, is that for for other people to to be aware of that and to appreciate you, for for everything that you do. So sorry, I'm getting emotional.

Matt Markin  
You remember? Do you remember when we first met?

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
I think we talked about it before, and it's like, oh, gosh, it was a panel, right? Was that the case?

Matt Markin  
Well, unless, maybe my unless we have two different versions of it, um, because I don't know, maybe I'm wrong on it. I thought we first met in at Reno, in at the 2017 region nine conference.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
That sounds about right, actually, yeah, no, I think you're correct.

Matt Markin  
So my colleague and I were doing a presentation, and it was the last presentation time concurrent session time on the last day of the conference. And you attended it. We were doing one on undecided, exploratory students and and I didn't, I don't remember, I know you were there because you talked about it afterwards being in that session. But we were on, I think, on the bus going from the campus back to the hotel so we can then, you know, catch our rides to the airport. And you overheard us talking about the presentation, you said, oh, you know, I win it. I enjoyed it. And you made a comment about how we should be proud that we had that session on the last day and the last concurrent session, because, to you, it's something that conference committees might pick certain sessions that they think will will have people stay and attend those last sessions. And I remember Evelyn and I afterwards were like, Oh my gosh, like our hearts are fluttering because that it was such a nice comment and statement, and it made us feel so much better. I mean, we had a good turnout, I think, on that session, but it felt even better hearing it from you about the reasoning why we might have had that last session on the last last time frame.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Yeah, I remember saying I really want to attend this session, and I hope I make my flight, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, you know, so and I, and I remember, yeah, it was last day. Sessions are typically very poorly attended, but that one, there were, there were, there was a full room and a lot of grateful people who came up with, now that you're saying it, it's all flooding back. But that was a while back.

Matt Markin  
It was but that's what I'm saying. Like things like that, little things like that, have a big impact on me, and I remember, you know, it's crazy, the things we do remember, we're like, Why do I remember that? I shouldn't, but I can't remember what. Put my car keys, you know, but a comment like that, like it's, it's stuck with me all these years, and Reno just has just that conference. So much came out of that professional development wise for me, friends that I made at that conference. But, yeah, I mean, you're also someone I think that people gravitate towards, and you are a gift giving person as well, you know? So, yeah, I think when you're not at a conference, people are bummed out.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Well, I thank you for saying that. That's very kind. But I do think that, you know, I just again, I'm so grateful. And to be honest, I was also conveying information that I've heard from some of the staff at NACADA. And you know, I don't know whether, I don't know whether they told because I had a session on the last day, and that's what someone told me and and so I really want to, I was like, Oh, wow. And then when I saw your session, I was like, Yes, this is proof, like, I can't use my own objective experience. But the fact that it is the last day and so many people hung around to hear this session really means that, you know, they're they're conscious of a lot of people saying, hey, it's only a half day. I could get on a plane and be out of here and get a full day's rest before I go back to work. Right? But the fact that people stick it out means that it's important, and just like your your podcast, it's important, and that's why people are your your loyal listeners are always there. Could you talk a little bit more about the programs and projects that you have so generously devoted your time and energy to in NACADA, and why you selected those particular programs and projects.

Matt Markin  
So definitely, I've taken a step back on some of the NACADA stuff. But the main ones I'm doing right now is, yeah, I'm still part of the Online Education Advisory Board, kind of reviewing, looking at what could be webinars and your future webinars, and looking reviewing old webinars and seeing if they're outdated or they could still have some relevance, but the main one really is being a mentor in the Emerging Leaders Program. So that one just started as of October 2024 it's a two year commitment, but I was in the Emerging Leaders Program as a mentee, enjoyed that experience, learned a lot, but I think it kind of goes with, you know, doing the podcast and other things, like, I just want to be able to give back and, you know, whatever I can do to help the next generation, the next group of advising professionals coming up, you know, can I help support them in their professional development? Can I help support them and their leadership opportunities, which also then means the product is that academic advising moves forward. You know, overall, Nakata moves forward in a positive way. So, and it's something that you know, being having been a mentee or mentee in the program before, you know, I have some of that experience, but all the things I've been able to do since then, you know, whether it's being a region chair or a conference co chair for a region or annual conference. Everything that I've been able to do within NACADA, it's it's helped me build, the friendships that I have, the collaborations I've been able to do. But I think overall, it also just helps with the advising community. So I kind of try to pick things that I know that I'll be able to balance with, with everything else that I have going on, but I always want to make sure that anything that I'm doing to try to help, I can give 100% to it, because if I give anything less, people may not know I'm giving less, but I'll know I'm giving less so.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And I know you are that way for other reasons, but I did want to attest to the fact that you are a fabulous mentor, because I have a colleague who was mentored by you, and as soon as I heard you were her mentor, I was, I said, you don't know how lucky you are. You just don't know right now, but, but thank you for doing that and caring so much and passing that torch along. 

Matt Markin  
Well, and I had told Rae, and Rae's amazing individual, like she honestly was the first person that I was officially a mentor for, for region nine pilot program in the mentoring program. So after we were done with the actual official program for that, like, short six months for the pilot, I had told her, yeah, I was very nervous of how things would go, because I didn't, you know, what if you didn't like me, or what if I didn't give you enough information? And I think there was the under pressure, because she had told me the beginning. Like, yeah, you know Megumi. And Matt said, you know that you're lucky, you know, to have Matt as your as your mentor. And I'm like, Oh no, that's I got to make sure I know that I do exactly what I need to do. And hopefully I make both Matt Eng and I make Megumi proud.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Well, you definitely, definitely did. And whoever you mentor is going to be so lucky just to have have you in their life, even if it's for, you know, a short time. But, yeah, but I know friendships in NACADA tend to be lifelong, and so you're right, it's, it's, we meet people along the way, and we end up really connecting with so many people. So closing reflection questions and questions about the future. In closing, I would just like to ask, What have you learned from doing the podcast, just in general, what do you think?

Matt Markin  
I think first thing that comes to mind is that I've realized how big the world is and how different advising is at different institutions, different countries, but at the same time, just how small the world is. You know, whether it's a podcast or just going to a conference, how you can easily just get connected with other people. And it's really nice to meet other individuals outside of your bubble of your office and your institution. You know, saying earlier that, that was just recently that I was told that, you know, this podcast is public facing scholarship. And so that is definitely something that I've learned, that I never thought about. And you know, someone that a lot of people know is Craig McGill, and he's the one that was like, Dude, this is public facing scholarship that you're doing, you know? He's like, there's research that can be made from this, you know. And hopefully, you know, people do see this as a free resource, something that is accessible, that can lead to academic research, that it's applicable and that does have an impact on on advising. I will say what I've learned from the podcast. I made this more connects to what what's for me, my for myself, is in my day to day, I've learned, especially from interviewing so many individuals and sometimes having to think on the spot of questions to ask, I think it's really helped me with my student appointments, being able to dig deeper into what could be certain issues students might be Having, because sometimes students come in with one question, but maybe there's more to it. And so I kind of try to look at each appointment holistically, and if I have, hey, we have 10 more minutes of this appointment. What else can I ask them? What else can I find out? What else can I recommend to them not to overwhelm them, but maybe there's things that the student hasn't considered, or maybe I haven't considered, and maybe I want to ask, and so I want to say it's probably helped me ask more open ended questions to students.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And what have you learned about yourself by doing the podcast?

Matt Markin  
You know, I think I was saying this earlier too, like I it was only recently that I really consider myself, Oh, maybe I can call myself a podcaster. I, for some reason, I always thought I was a fraud over these last few years, you know, doing this, but I've learned, like, you don't have to be the best speaker. You don't have to be the best interviewer. You know, a lot of it's about consistency. And as much as I might be nervous, like putting out an episode. Oh, what are people going to think at the end of the day? I don't want that to stop me from doing something. And, you know, I know a lot of us have ideas, and, you know, reluctant to, you know, move forward with it. And I think to anyone listening, this is proof, if you have an idea, you know do it. You know whether it's as a pilot, just to test it out, you may have people tell you don't do it, but you also have to ask yourself, why are they telling me not to do it? If something, if you have an idea that's going to help your students, help yourself, help staff, help professional development, hey, try it out. So yeah, I've learned about myself is that, yeah, anyone can do this. You just have to be consistent with it. And starting it is always the hardest part. But just do it. You know, if you see there's an issue, do something about it. But I also think it's, it's maybe a little bit more confident in my abilities, and, yeah, and I've realized this is as much as this is something that is done, you know, not part of my regular job or regular work hours, I still have that motivation and interest to continue it.

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
And I do have to say that I just really. Appreciate having been on the other side of this and having been interviewed by you that it was extremely nerve wracking on on one level, but your again, your genuine care and your genuine wanting to shine a positive light and really, to really point out what, what is, what is good, and what, what the stories are behind everything, I think I felt very cared for as an interviewee, you know. And it was actually fun, like I never thought it would be fun, but it was so much fun and and also, thank you for letting me do this, because, you know now, now you have the experience of what it feels like to be on that side. I did see a shorter clip of a video from you, and I know that sometimes you do videos at work and things, but you know, I really wanted the listeners to know the real you. I mean, you know, and not just you're always asking questions of others. And so this was so inspiring to me, and I'm glad that we were able to spend this time. So thank you, super Matt, for letting us gain a better sense of the behind the scenes magic that you're able to pull off on a daily basis. And thank you for everything you do for us. I don't know how how else to there's no words to explain just how much you are truly a giving and caring person, and I mean that on all levels with everyone that you encounter, you know, and so I think that's why, that's what makes your podcast so popular, is that people feel that and it resonates with them so so thank you so much.

Matt Markin  
Oh, well, I appreciate that. Everything you just said, Yeah, I'm getting a little emotional now too, just hearing that. So I really do appreciate it, and I appreciate you and Ann and Marcedes, you know, continually asking me about doing an interview, and I think have put it out my story, and I felt very comfortable with all the questions that you've just asked. And now I'm wondering, why did I wait so long? But I appreciate you so much. 

Megumi Makino-Kanehiro  
Thank you. 

Matt Markin  
All right, we're continuing our fifth anniversary episode of The Adventures in advising podcast, and let's welcome back guest host Dr. Melinda Anderson, hey, Melinda.

Melinda Anderson  
Hey Matt, how are you doing?

Matt Markin  
Very well. And we have a special guest for this episode to interview, and that's Dr. Kyle Ross, Executive Director of NACADA, the global community for academic advising. Welcome back, Kyle.

Kyle Ross  
Hey, thanks for having me, and happy five year anniversary. That's awesome!

Matt Markin  
Yes. And how long have you been executive director now I feel like time has flown.

Kyle Ross  
Yes, so been in the role for a year and four months now. So yeah, little over a year, still learning every day.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, no, when you were last on the podcast, it was less than a year, and I'm already asking you, what's your perspective? And so now that it's been over a year, I thought it would be nice to kind of revisit that. How's it been, starting as executive director to you know, versus now? Has your perspective changed at all?

Kyle Ross  
Yeah, certainly. And I think it's going to keep changing, like every day. So there are some things that I feel pretty resolved on, like, Okay, we've got a really strong sense of direction with certain things and how we move forward. What I would say my perspective changes on the most any given day is balancing out what is revenue generating to allow for things that are investments to the members to continue to grow, what is a member benefit? So no additional cost of members, you just get this, versus what is open to the public. So whether you're a member or non member, this is open to you. And that balance changes quite a bit, and it depends on each thing, publications has a very different philosophy compared to online events, compared to our in person events. So I think that that's where my perspective changes the most, is where there are revenue generating opportunities that allows us to be able to continue to do things that are more of an investment or at cost of the association, or to grow things like our own staff, we are still kind of small when we benchmark ourselves to other executive offices of other nonprofits for higher education, so I think we have some room for growth there, but that does mean we have to strike that balance a little differently sometimes. So I think that that's where my perspective changes quite a bit. This last year, we looked at online events and said, Hey, these are open to the public right now, let's make these a member benefit, because. If a member should get this access to an online event for free, a non member should either be paying something for it, or should become a member to be able to enjoy that benefit as well.

Melinda Anderson  
Yeah. Well, no. I mean, I think you know, just hearing, you know, the different categories, right? That even that you named, you know, coming into this role, and when you think about, for example, explaining this to members, or, you know, even guiding and leading a staff. And I know that you most recently had a business meeting right. You know what has been your philosophy in terms of being able to, for example, cast a vision right, and then being able to share goals, then related to, like, operationalizing them, right? Because, you know, I was reading Inside Higher Ed today, and they were talking about, you know, either universities coming together in order to save revenue. You know, a lot of people are concerned about enrollments, but I love the way that, you know, even your philosophy of thought around operationalizing understanding member benefit, you know, versus maximizing, you know, profit potential for the organization in order to be sustained. Like those are really powerful ways to be thinking about the longevity, right? But they're always centered around vision and goals. And so you had a business meeting. And so I don't know if there's anything you would want to share in that business meeting that you know, that our listeners would want to know about, because I think organizational strength and sustainability are really important, especially in these times. Right? A lot of people are nervous on their campuses. How do I continue to, you know, stay sharp in my profession, right? As I think about continuing to support students. So if you could just share some thoughts about your business meeting and how that continues to cast a vision for NACADA moving forward. Yeah,

Kyle Ross  
Absolutely. So the annual business meeting is held every year, annual so that we meet one of our requirements of being a 501 c3 organization, and that we present the finances to the membership. So objective one was to talk through the 2023 finances after completing our audit, having filed our 990 and overall, we're doing really well financially. 2023 we generated a profit of about 250 a little over $200,000 and so that's a nice swing from having to survive the pandemic times, which was no fun for any nonprofit association. A lot of us had to dip into reserves. A lot of us had to think through, how do we operate differently during that time? And now we're we're back to flourishing and being successful. So that was a really nice thing to be able to present to the members and say, We're doing great, and so that helps us shape, okay, well, now that we're doing financially well, what does that mean in terms of being able to be things that are at cost the association, but a benefit to the members? So awards, scholarships, different things that we can do to try to make our associations accessible as possible. And then the other piece of the business meeting was we wanted to hold a listening session for folks who joined to be able to share questions, comments, concerns, ideas for the association. We did that last year. That was great. We had about 100 people attend, and we I was just typing away, taking notes fast and furious. We wanted to do that again this year again, now successful. Heard some questions and comments around communication of different updates and things that are going on in the association, how to get those more in front of members. So that's helping us think through what information can we get on the website versus our newsletters like next week and highlights? So that's certainly some really good feedback that we're taking back and saying, Okay, we need to rethink some things here. We did have a really great discussion on the globalization of the association, where that's going in the future. The board has supported that we will bring back the International Conference in some way, shape or form, in 2026 or 2027 is what we're looking at. But they did say, Hey, before we do that, let's really kind of come back to the intention of that international conference when we look back at 2013, 1517, every year we did this. Large majority of attendees were folks from the United States. Large majority of presenters for the sessions were folks from the United States. So did we just take a conference that we would typically hold the United States, put it in a different place, kind of and so we want to think through like, how do we really maximize the engagement of members outside the United States in these conferences? Because it's particularly intended for their benefit, and we're bringing the cop to them. And so how we make sure that they're the ones who are generating content, trying to get ideas, so we're not overdoing the here's the American perspective on that we share out there. So global initiatives committee and the global conference Advisory Board have recently merged into one group that's really. Looking more holistically at, how do we maximize engagement of members outside of the United States through virtual engagements, international conference. Where does that take us in the future? Some other updates that the Board President Wendy Schindler also shared were that a couple task forces were convened in recent times. So one was to establish a definition of academic advising in the scope of practice. Very excited about that work. You know, we have the concept of academic advising, but even that task force recognized at that time, there's too many complexities to academic advising. It looks so different in so many institutions across the world, we couldn't possibly establish a definition that worked for everybody now in this role, over this year, one of my big learning experiences has been, I think there is still a common thread even through all those complexities. So how can we find that common thread in the definition that we should be aspiring for? So looking forward to seeing what comes of that, because we do get questions on what is the formal definition of definition of definition of academic advising for NACADA, they say, well, we don't have one, but we have a concept of academic advising that is informed in the teaching and learning paradigm perspective. And I think that when we do establish one, that that will help institutions greatly and be really more strategic and intentional about how they want to design advising programs. The other thing was a task force was convened onNACADA elections and appointments. And so the intention was to establish a committee on around elections and appointments, so that there would be a group really holistically reviewing eligibility requirements for positions. How do we recruit folx to positions, if it's an elected position versus an appointed position, when we look at appointments, are those processes transparent to those who are interested in those roles, and so really being strategic across all of those things, the way we've done elections has been fairly consistent for several years now. I think that there's some opportunities for us to say, how do we make sure that we are preparing people for these roles, that they're as fully informed as possible on what positions are available to them and what those requirements are, and then from there, what makes someone really successful in the position? And how do we craft eligibility requirements that are not restrictive, but rather, really clear to the person interested. Here's what it takes to be successful in this position. So work is still going on that, but the board did support creating committee on the elections and appointments underway on figuring out who's going to be on that committee at the onset. So those are a couple of updates from board of directors that Wendy shared. Yeah, so that's kind of the ongoing work of the association right now that we shared at the business meeting. And as far as kind of my vision and things that I'm looking at ahead of for the future, my role is helpful in the what can the executive office do to best support the association? So what are the priorities that we can address that are in alignment with the board's strategic plan, that are the things that we can uniquely do for the association, where there's a lot of other great work that the volunteers and members of our association can do. So we say, let them do that while we can really work on this. Or how can we support their work as well.

Melinda Anderson  
Well, no, I mean, I think, you know, and I'm hoping that there's a lot of layers and complexity in terms of the internal and then the external, you know, forces, right? That nonprofits are finding themselves in, you know, just given the level of competition for people's times, talents, energy, you know, and monies, right? You know, in terms of what would it's currently in the playground these days, you know. And so just kudos to to the work that you've done and the board's done. And, you know, Matt and I, you know, we're able to sit with Zoranna A couple of weeks ago, and to hear about the good work that the board has done, coming, you know, out of the conference experience, and so, you know, just hearing, you know, coming out of the business meeting. So thank you so much for sharing again with us, you know, a lot of the work that's been happening. So we appreciate that. And thank you again. And kudos, right? It's a lot of work, you know, to try to keep and maintain those balances. So thank you, absolutely.

Matt Markin  
I know I went to like, a business meeting years ago, and I think at that time, like you all were passing out, like the actual like, here's how much the we have for the budget for the executive office, and we see that larger number like, wow, Nakata has all this money. And then you start looking at, where does all that money go? And I'm like, how does the cada survive on this? And and I guess that leads into a question I have in terms of, and I feel like we talk about this all the all the time, or every year, budget, budget cuts. At a lot of institutions, especially like, let's say, with California, where I'm at. I know all the CSUs have been told, okay, we're reducing. I mean, we had two Cal States that kind of merged, but then you have like Nakata as an organization and has these leadership positions. Do you fear that, like with a lot of budget cuts at other institutions, and more work that's now placed on these individuals at institutions that they may want to get involved in, an organization like NACADA, but might not now?

Kyle Ross  
Yeah, that's a very real possibility, and we're seeing that across organizations as well, even more broadly than higher education nonprofits. So I'm a member of ASAE, American Society for Association Executives, and one of their conversations that they're talking about a lot and consistently, has been creating these micro volunteer opportunities for the folks who can no longer commit to full term to your positions, through your positions, where, if you want to get involved right now, because the timing is right, you have the support. Great. Here's what you can do in a very isolated time frame. So I think we need to really spend some more time diving into those conversations little early on that, because seeing that come up, and I was like, Okay, so that's a trend that we're seeing in other organizations, that's we're not going to be exempt from that in the future. So I think that that's something, yes, that we do have to look at. Sometimes there's an opportunity there, though, for members who see that they're not always getting this support from their institution, because budget budgets are real. Enrollment cliff is here. We are living in that time right now that if they're not feeling that support at their institution, then they'll seek Nakata or other organizations to grow their skills advance themselves. So haven't seen too much of a dip yet, but we are thinking that that's a very real possibility, as institutions are definitely looking at budgets very closely.

Melinda Anderson  
Well, no, I mean, I you know, Matt, I appreciate your question, because that's definitely, you know, a lot of our conversations too about how do we continue to think about professional development as not an option, right, but a need, especially as we know that the support around student success work is something that has gained traction in the past couple of years. But then thinking about the political waters or spaces that we are now standing in, what kind of impact or implications is that going to have on institutions? So I do appreciate that. And then, Kyle, to your point, how do we continue to offer what level of support that people need at the time, that they need it? So I do love that concept of even micro volunteering. But then, how do you help institutions and members for whatever they they need in this moment, but then also remain your maintain relationships so people know that you know that I'm here when you need me. And I think that that's a very powerful way to think about sustainability of any organization or institution at this point, because Matt, I was reading about mergers and consolidations of institutions this morning, and I've just got to stay away from the Chronicle Inside Higher Ed when I get up in the morning, because I'm just like, what is happening? Like I go to bed at night that I wake up like, what's happening in higher ed. But you know, Kyle, that leads us to, like, our next question around, like, the direction of academic advising and student success, right? We all these buzzwords, right? Holistic student supports academic advising. And so you're talking about, like, you know, even around the definition of academic advising, and when I think about the work happening in NACADA, you know, driving that conversation, but you're in a field where a lot of people are putting their hands in that work. How do you think that, you know, given the complexity of the environment that you're operating in right now, how do you how do you envision to keep driving those conversations? I mean, we do have a research center in Nakata, and so I think that that definitely gives you a leg up where most places do not have something at that level. So I'm just wondering, have you guys given some thought around, how do you keep driving and being in front of that conversation with so many people in the sandbox?

Kyle Ross  
Yeah, that's a great question. So two answers to that. First, NACADA needs to start being a little bit bolder in some of the positions that we take. So hence why we're doing that definition of academic advising. This is what NACADA defines as academic advising. Otherwise, when academic advising has historically been undefined, you find that it gets anchored in the institution's priorities. And therefore the institution's priorities define academic advising, and then that leads to inconsistent student experiences over time. If we say that advising is a retention tool, becomes a retention tool that has implications for what academic advising is structured like and is supported or not. Advising is a teaching and learning tool, then it becomes a different thing. Advising is. Is related to enrollment management, different set of priorities. So if NACADA says this is the definition that helps avoid that turbulence that we sometimes see with Okay, we're gonna change it, because new strategic plan, therefore this has to look different, but it should still be linked to institutions priorities, right? So striking that balance of this is what it should be consistently, but this is also how it can help support the institution's strategic plan. Other things that we can take older positions on, you know, as we look with the research center, as you said, one of the things that we're trying to build out is a data set to help benchmark institutions across, particularly the United States for now, starting with that. Okay, so small, private institution four year, here's what the current average is, or data shows on centralizers, decentralized case loads, faculty, professional advisors, all kinds of different data you can pull on that, and then that will help us inform some of those bigger questions that we would love to answer, like, what is the caseload ratio that NACADA would recommend to an institution? We don't have that recommendation right now. People keep coming back to the 2011 study, where we reported a median in averages, but didn't say that this is the number we recommended was just 300 to one was the approximate median for large research one public universities at the time that the study was conducted. But now we're seeing that as other organizations are getting involved, they're hearing those same questions getting asked, and where NACADA said we don't have a recommendation due to too many complexities, then those organizations will say, well, they're not going to answer it. We will. So I think that that if we kind of shift our mentality there and say there are common threats to academic advising, here are those things that NACADA's found that will help us continue to stay ahead of the curve.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, and I love hearing that, and I know we keep talking about the future, but I wanted to get this question in. And this is actually from Nathan Vickers, so this is his question to you, Kyle, is when you look back on 2024 What are three words that you would use to describe 2024.

Kyle Ross  
That's a great question for me. One word is learning. My gosh, I have been learning a lot every day in 2024, joys of having a strong advising background, but not been an association executive before. That's where my learning curve is at right now. So I would say learning number one, two, change. New Leadership always comes change. I think that's just a natural phenomenon in organizations, but we had some catalysts for change this year in the association, one being that the organizational consultant that we contracted to do a holistic review of the association that was during the time that Melinda was executive director, doing an RFP process and getting that started. Thank you. Melinda Bob strong has completed that work, submitted a report to the board, and we're taking on chunks and saying, okay, which recommendations do we pursue now? One of those being, for example, that in the cop elections and appointments committee, so some catalyst for change so, and we've been following and following through on those pretty quickly and trying to prioritize, which recommendations can you pursue now, which ones may need to wait as your organization does go through change, so learning change. And then the third word is excitement. So folks are really excited for the opportunities that we're providing to them. Folx are always so excited to come to our in person events, the opportunity to go to all the region conferences this year in the annual conference, and just feels like people are like, this is my professional Disneyland. I found it and so just the excitement in the air there and being able to engage with their peers and colleagues, especially after several years of not being so in person. So warning, change.

Melinda Anderson  
Learning, change excitement, L, C, E. I know I love that. I love that because I want to capitalize on excitement. Because Matt and I also wanted to talk to you about the celebration of 50 Years of NACADA, because even coming out of Pittsburgh, which was amazing, by the way, so again, kudos. And we had a really great time. And so really excited about gathering together. And I agree with you, there was a lot of excitement in Pittsburgh, and you're right about people just being able to gather together, seeing friends that they hadn't seen in a long time, making new friends, new folks, coming into the profession, and like you said, finding a home. Like you do this work, like I do this work. Oh my god, I found me here, right? And that is just amazing. Um. Um, to to watch and see that come together. And so what are some thoughts or things that you can share with us about looking towards celebrating 50 years, because that's significant and and awesome and amazing.

Kyle Ross  
It is huge for us, and we're so excited. The nice thing about our organization is we kind of have two sets of anniversaries, right? We've got the anniversary of the annual conference. So that one was in 2027 first annual conference was in 1977 so 50th year of the annual conference at that point. And then Todd was officially chartered as an organization in 1979 so we hit 2029 for the 50th year of the overall establishment of the organization. So we give an opportunity to continue to celebrate to COVID birthday over a set of several years. Nice. Yeah. So very excited for that work. We're a little early in those conversations right now, but I think what I've seen from how other organizations celebrate and certainly things that I want to take back to NACADA with is one celebrating our history, right? So, honoring the history of the establishment of the annual conference, the chartering of the organization, all the accomplishments over 50 years, growing from a few people to 14,000 members. Huge celebrating accomplishments of all the different communities that have been established the other events and resources that we offer, proliferation of publications and online education. So really honoring the past and then celebrating in that moment. So really, then taking the time to say, here we are now in the present, celebrate where we're at right now and then looking towards that future. So what kinds of exciting things can we be rolling out at that point? For people to say, now, I see where my cot is going to be in the next 50 years after that, as we look towards the 100th year anniversary, way down the road. So I think part of that is that continued professionalization of academic advising. So once we establish that definition that also has some impacts towards well, then that can inform things like reviewing our core values, core competencies, maybe establishing a code of ethics. And then what else does that mean for what advisors can look at and say, Now I'm demonstrating my learning, and Kata is able to document that learning as a result of being directly related to a definition to these competencies, that's something that's currently missing in the association. A lot of times, numbers don't have that opportunity to say, see, here's the thing that shows I learned this. Have that right now with my preferentials and digital badges. But what else can we be doing to help advisors be able to demonstrate advancement of their competencies and academic advising and the justification for maybe advancement or looking towards your jewels?

Melinda Anderson  
Nice. I'm excited. 

Matt Markin  
Along those lines, I think this could be a great question to connect with. That is, what's your message to NACADA members, or even listeners of the podcast, that more than likely are NACADA members, as we start 2025 you know what? What's your general message?

Kyle Ross  
General message is really center in on your why, of why you are an academic advisor and in the profession, I know folx have a lot of anxieties going into 2025 with budgets institutions. Enrollment cliff is here. National Student Clearinghouse has been publishing some really fascinating data with that. But there always is opportunities in some of those places where we see anxiety. So enrollment cliff. What we're also noticing is that that enrollment cliff is being made up for by different demographics, one being dual enrolled students, so students who are in high school and then also completing college coursework at the same time. What does that mean for the profession? How can academic advisors deepen their knowledge around advising that population? And then there's students who decided I'm not going to go to college while it's virtual in the pandemic time, and now are thinking, Okay, now it's the right time for me to enroll. So National Student clearinghouses affectionately follow those pandemic stop outs. One just said, this isn't the right time for me. Now I'm coming back. So what I think we're going to have an opportunity to dialog around, how does advising look a little different in terms of being able to tailor itself to those populations? So I'm really excited for that in 2025 but centering on your Why? Why are you in this role? Why do you love the profession so much? Why do you love working with students and their success will help you remind yourself, even during those times where you're feeling stress and anxiety around institutions, budget and overall physical health changing trends in higher education overall, so focus on that and. That should help you continue into your future.

Melinda Anderson  
Wonderful. Well, look, it's always good to have a message of hope right as you go into the new year. I always have a New Year's resolution, Matt, we've always joked about this. My New Year's resolution said, Never really pan out. They kind of peter out like around February, but I do, Kyle, I do appreciate your message of hope. And you know, for people to center on their why and to remember you know why you do what you love and how that can accelerate you in those moments, and then to lean into your community. So absolutely, which is one of those reasons why we're all together here today in this podcast, is community.

Matt Markin  
Well, I appreciate you both being on the podcast for this, especially also to celebrate five years of the podcast. And none of this would have happened without NACADA, without the both of you, without Charlie. So I really appreciate all of you.

Melinda Anderson  
I just appreciate always the hard work, because I know it is hard work, just the organization and the scheduling, but I love how people are always willing to step up to the mic and and to be interviewed by you, and I think that that's that stays says a lot about who you are. So thank you so much for you know, offering opportunities to host with you and Kyle, thank you so much for being willing to let us interview you and to hear more about what's happening in the organization and how you'll continue to be leading us forward in this work and the professionalization of advising. So thank you so much.

Kyle Ross  
Thank you, and it was really great to see you all, and congratulations again. Happy five year anniversary.