Self-Advocacy and Supporting our Differences - Adventures in Advising

In Ep. 97, Matt Markin chats with Leslie Bell, academic advisor and retention specialist at Rust College. Leslie discusses helping students understand the importance of networking and building a career portfolio. Additionally, Leslie addresses neurodivergence, misconceptions associated with it and tips for advisors working with students who are neurodivergent. Last, he addresses social media’s impact on his professional development.

Follow the podcast on your favorite podcast platform!

The Instagram, and Facebook handle for the podcast is @AdvisingPodcast

Also, subscribe to our Adventures in Advising YouTube Channel!

Connect with Matt and Ryan on LinkedIn.

Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hey there and welcome back to another exciting episode of The Adventures and Advising podcast. We are at episode 97, just a few episodes away from Episode 100. So who is our guest today? Well, that is someone I've gotten to meet at advising conferences and someone who has been a longtime listener of the pod and that is Leslie Bell from Rust College. Leslie Bell was born and raised in Akron, Ohio, enrolled at the University of Akron, Leslie struggled academically his first two years that included an academic dismissal, but was reinstated and worked his way back to graduating with his Bachelor of Science in political science and criminal justice, with minors in political science, American track and criminal justice technology corrections track, Leslie is a proud first generation college student. He also pursued his graduate work at his alma mater and earned his Master of Arts in higher education administration. Leslie's first professional student affairs position was a part time summer position in 2014, with Kent State University as a clerical specialist researcher, his role was to gather information on diversity, equity and inclusion and prepare Excel spreadsheets for all its campuses. Leslie was then a student success coach with a third party that was contracted to the University of Akron, where he coached first year students. In 2017, Leslie was employed with Kansas State University as an academic coaching counselor. Presently, Leslie is an academic advisor retention specialist at rust College, which consists of advising first year students who have less than 30 completed credit hours. He works with students who are at risk or who are on academic probation or academic notice. Leslie is an aquatic conference regular always staying on top of the latest information on advising techniques and adapting to the latest trends. Outside of work, Leslie enjoys walking, watching YouTube and professional wrestling, and reflecting on ways to be a better advocate for well being mental health and self care. Leslie, welcome to Adventures in Advising.

Leslie Bell  
Thank you very much, Matt.

Matt Markin  
Leslie, remind me because I know you've been a longtime listener of the podcast and also, you know, supporter of the podcast. Did we officially meet in person? Was it in Portland in 2022?

Leslie Bell  
It was in Portland in October of 2022.

Matt Markin  
Gotcha. Yeah. And I'm sure we'll chat about that too, with their conference experience. So let's start out Lesley tell us more about your journey into higher education.

Leslie Bell  
Well, my journey in higher education started, really, after the end of my first undergraduate semester, where I had a GPA of point four, three, I failed elements of math one, I failed into the criminal justice. I had failed English 121, which was the community college version of English Composition one. I was dismissed academically. But I wrote a strong reinstatement letter and I was reinstated on academic probation. And it took about another year to get the good standing. And the two classes that really elite the side of that, actually three, my strong showing and elements of math, one into the sociology where I got a C and also into the criminal justice, which I retook, which I got to see in that class, because I was pursuing a two year degree in criminal justice technology at the time, is well before 2002 When I decided to change majors to go from political science, America track to political science, criminal justice, where I kept performing well, well on and then in my contract, you're at the end of 2006. In December of that year, I graduated with a Bachelor of Science in political science, criminal justice, because my first higher ed position was in the RACI bliss Institute of Applied politics as a student employee gathering research and doing other projects to help advance the role of the institution and that's at the University of Akron. And for those who don't know, the bliss Institute is a bipartisan teaching and research institute for anyone can pursue an undergraduate certificate or graduate certificate. There's for those who want to go to graduate school, there is a JD map, a juris doctorate, and a Master of Applied politics. You both get, get a Master of Applied politics and the law degree. And there's also the regular Master of Applied politics, because I got an undergraduate certificate and applied politics because I really liked the way research and teaching of the bliss Institute.

Matt Markin  
You know you're talking about and appreciate you sharing your story being on like the dismissal and then raising getting back in raising that GPA back up being successful and graduating. Do you feel like your story do you? Do you end up working with students were able to share that story with them as well?

Leslie Bell  
I would like and I say to people, I've been in your shoes, but the reason why I performed better was I went to tutoring, I went to the Math Lab, I went to the writing lab, I went to the study skill center, I took care of myself better for my own mental well being. I use time management, I was better able to budget my time, I spent longer hours on campus, being able to do the nuts and bolts research of doing a paper, asking questions, going to office hours, meeting with my advisor, they gave me those first steps, but I was my responsibility to take the next step. And being able to succeed not only academically, but also for my own well being and for my own academic standing. And it all ties back into financial literacy. If you're going to do well, you're going to make sure you graduate in four years. But it took me eight years, and my student loans for undergraduates I maxed out in my contract year at the end of 2006. Knowing that I was going to be graduating.

Matt Markin  
Awesome. And you know, fast forward to now you know, you are working at Rust College, you are an academic advisor and retention specialist. Can you tell us more about your role and what that entails?

Leslie Bell  
Sure. In my role at Rust College, I do advising with first year students who have less than 30 credit hours, these are mostly incoming students. And I've been in that position for almost two years. Originally, when I started out, I had at a group of students that had certain last days beginning with certain letters, and in a wide variety of majors through five divisions, because we have about 30 majors. In those five divisions. They are consisting of humanities, business, education, science, and math, social science, and we work with those students. And we ask them a series of questions. And we do a lot I do a lot of holistic and inclusive advising along with triage and strength strengths based advising. Because I really like using doing the triage advising I like I really enjoy deep diving into what makes a student be successful what what's keeping a student back. And I like to ask those questions, such as, why haven't you been going to class or why you've been underperforming in this particular subject. And I like talking with that with my students. Every time I see them on a weekly basis or on or another part of campus or after one of my college orientation classes. It's all about going into the human condition and understanding where a student is coming from, or meet or meeting the student where he or she is at, and providing those timely resources in making sure he or she is successful. It's all about timing. You got to get them where they're at immediately, or they fall through the cracks. 

Matt Markin  
It's like asking a lot of those open ended questions and like you're saying kind of doing that deep dive into finding out more about the student where they're at and how to get them back on track if they kind of fall off a little bit with that. Can you tell us a little bit more about Rust College for those who may not know about the institution?

Leslie Bell  
Sure. Rust College is the oldest, historically black college and university in the state of Mississippi as a private institution. It was one of the original HBCUs founded before H 1868. And we are part of the Freedmen's Aid Society was founded by the Freedmen's Aid Society, and it is part of the United Methodist Church, meaning that we are not part of the United Negro College Fund the UNCF. And we don't take any money from the state of Mississippi since it's not a state institution that is part of the University of Mississippi, Mississippi Board of Regents because our our wares were driven by a student tuition. That's what drives our revenue. And we tell we tell students that we're a private institution. We're not Part of any institution in the state of Mississippi, what we do is provide students with a whole education through cultural, educational, and religious aspects.

Matt Markin  
Wonderful. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And I was interested less because I know when we were chatting a few months ago, when we're kind of planning out doing this interview for the podcast, you were talking about kind of your journey into becoming an academic advisor and kind of some of the challenges that came up with it. Can you share a little bit more about that? 

Leslie Bell  
When I graduated with my master's degree in December of 2010, as I knew I wanted to be an academic advisor, because my academic advisor was received her master's degree in political science from UA. She's now the chair of the political science department at East Carolina University. And I really saw her in action, doing what she does, I cleaned up my courses, and she really agreed with a lot of the courses that I needed to graduate. And that was really what triggered my interest in higher education, I started to pursue a Master's of Arts in political science. But after a year and a half, it didn't work out. So I'm met with a with a lady who used to be an academic advisor in the then College of Education at the time, which is now the Lebron James Family Foundation, School of Education. It's part of the book, the College of Arts and Sciences now, and she really encouraged me to apply for the higher education program. Because I didn't have to write a master's thesis, I didn't have to do a statistics class. And looking back now, it was a way better fit for my skill set. And if I had to do it all over again, I probably would have gone with the higher ed program and graduated in two years, not spending an extra two years being in graduate school, because there's always time to reflect and second guess yourself. But at times, we have to, we make our own bet we have to lie in it.

Matt Markin  
Very much. So very true. Now, I know one of the topics you were interested in chatting about today was that of neurodivergent? How would you describe neurodivergent?

Leslie Bell  
For me, saying everything in a layman's terms, it takes a lot longer for me to process all the information and then come up with a rationally sound decision are coming with the logic behind that decision. I take a lot of time and reviewing everything about two or three times, and then coming up with a response. Sometimes, when a student emails me about a question, I will come up with that response really quickly. And then I'll deep dive into that question. I like to ask a quick, I can answer another question. But at times, I want to give them the entire answer on my face that email now will ask him, have I answered your question? Sometimes they may get confused on something with an assignment for orientation 111 or orientation 112, and then I will clarify the I want the response. But there are always students in my orientation classes are always open to come to my office or message me on our Learning Management System, or just come to my office. And if they have a concern by the question, granting class or a major, I will answer it. But and also a term of neuro divergence se, because I do have a mild form of autism spectrum disorder, I still have a great mind. But my mind is the develops a little more a little longer. And looking at details and looking at materials. Of course, it does take time, it's still hard for people to accept my condition, because there's still a lot of prejudice against those who are neurodivergent because I was so happy when I got my official diagnosis nearly six years ago, when I was still living in Manhattan, Kansas, at a place called Flint Hills neuro psychology because I took a lot of the basic tasks. And I pretty much knew right then and there. 

Matt Markin  
I guess along with that, what do you feel that some people might have misconceptions about with someone who's neurodivergent?

Leslie Bell  
That they're that they're crazy, or they don't know what they're talking about? I just give it to you. In plain English simple in black and white. Of course, I still grasped with it. It's a condition is not curable. It's something I have to live with for the remainder of my life. And of course, I have friends of mine who have kids who You have autism? It's not easy. 

Matt Markin  
And you were mentioning, you know, like, for example, like the the emails and deep diving and how you respond, are there any other challenges that you feel like you faced? Let's say just maybe in the higher education realm of being an academic advisor in your position?

Leslie Bell  
Yes. What because when I'm when I'm responding to emails or questions, sometimes my answer is confusing or too long, or sometimes, and a lot of times, I will clarify it, to make it make it more simpler. And but a lot of times when a student or colleague of mine is asking me a question, of course, I will assist them in any way they can, since I have more experience is the my that my colleagues who, who we brought on last year, and of course, they're going through it through for the first time in terms of teaching orientation classes and having a caseload.

Matt Markin  
Yeah. And I also kind of just think of in terms of like, even the students that that we work with students that might be neurodivergent. I know like our institution just opened up like a neurodivergent. Office for students to go in and have as a place to be. So I guess like, what for your advice to, let's say, advisors, working with students? Like what would be your advice for advisors working with students who might be neurodivergent?

Leslie Bell  
That, that question is a really good one. And my advice when when we're working with students who are neurodivergent is be open with them be sensitive about their feelings, really work with various offices to provide the best resources, work with neurodiversity center, work with the Office of Accessibility, stay in stay in the loop with those students, and even their professors. There are times that the professors will not honor or the request of the students and the accessibility office, because we the professor's have to be really sensitive about it. And of course, I've had students who have IEPs and 504s, since Rust does not have an official accessibility office, we have to judge it on our own merits, because I will give those accommodations and exceptions for those students. Of course, I'm really sensitive about it. Since I've been in the shoes of those students.

Matt Markin  
What I guess that leads me to another question based off that answer. So like you were mentioning, Rust doesn't have like, let's say that accessibility office. So like you would like let's say, as an advisor, you would determine let's say maybe the accommodations, how does that process work? Like does the student reach out to you and then you can have a conversation with a student and then you make the accommodations based off that?

Leslie Bell  
Well, we'll the process when a student comes in is if a student has an IEP 504 We will review all of that information from those documents, and then come up with an IEP 504 plan for the students based on their needs. And then we will when the student makes her his or her schedule, and after that, we will email each of the professors from that students schedule and we will email them all at the same time. And we will inform so each each and every professor this do need accommodations for such and such a class like English Composition two or analytical geometry and calculus one. Sometimes the, the professor will honor it, sometimes the professor will not. But it's really a case by case basis, depending on the professor sometimes, or even most of the time, the professor will not honor that request. Because for the first year and a half, I was not only advising students in all five divisions, but also advising IEP 504 students, which which I voluntarily gave up towards the end of last semester.

Matt Markin  
Oh, thanks for sharing all of that. I think that's it's very interesting. I know every institution is different on on how their process goes. And I like for our dentist institution I work at all that will be processed and work with our services to students with disabilities office and then they'll get in contact with the professor. So kind of same process like ultimately like once you review it and and reviewing those forms and doing the accommodations. But I wanted to kind of switch gears and you know, kind of talk more about you outside of Rust College in terms of you at the kata conferences, because I know that's had an impact on you on like the, what you end up learning at those conferences and what you're able to bring back. So talking about participating in within the kata and kind of how it's impacted your professional development.

Leslie Bell  
I've been participating. Well, the first time I participated in NACADA conference, when I was still at K-State, I went to the region seven conference in Tulsa, Oklahoma in February of 2017. That was my first time getting the opportunity to actually go to a NACADA conference, see what it's like, and go to a concurrent session. Because a lot of those sessions I went to revolve, intersectionality academic coaching, and a few advising set sheet sessions. That's where my first really big opportunity to network, okay, those are the chances where you get to hand out your business card, and let them know that you're ready to speak with them at any time. And then when I when I left K-State in May of 2017, because I was working in various in I was looking for employment. And then I found a Plan B position where I was at for a little over two years, then the pandemic hit. And then let a lot of layoffs are occurred since my position was deemed non essential. But I never forgot about NACADA I kept renewing my membership. I was like partially active at the time in the kata. But when I got the rest college two years ago, I knew what I had to do, knowing that the next conference was going to be in Portland, because I really wanted to go because I want to learn and get in more insight about what what is academic advising in the trenches, not just from an advising students standpoint, but also from a research standpoint, or from an HBCU standpoint, from an athletic standpoint. Because when I make that decision to go to Portland, in October of 2022, I didn't realize what I was getting into. But at the same time, I met a lot of great people and people who were put who are rooting for me to get back into the higher education profession. I met Sally Garner from University of Oregon. She's still at Oregon andJames Fasulo, who is still at Portland State University. And of course, I've met a lot of people along the way who have supported me. And some of the places I've went to in the sessions while the HBCU sessions, the academic probation sessions, first gen higher ed advising. And of course, in those takeaways, I pretty much learned a lot about advising and also how they word probation dismissal suspension. And I really liked the research that's being used by California State University at San Bernardino. They use the term academic notice. And when they use like probation dismissal, it, it has a negative stigma. It's sort of like a dog whistle against underrepresented students such as African Americans, Indigenous students, and Latino students, or I should say Latine students. And a lot of institutions are starting to become more sensitive about it. As I like using the moderate language of notice. That means when a student falls under a certain GPA, before they go into the major, like a 2.0 GPA, we work with them and giving them all the necessary resources that will be key to helping them get back to good standing. In a good sunlight. Sometimes the students are will be on financial aid dismissal. That means that they get to get financial aid reinstatement, they would have to fill out a student, add student a student, I can Satisfactory Academic Progress form with all relevant information attached and write a letter explaining why his or her financial aid should be reinstated. And of course, if their financial aid is reinstatement, we limit them to 12 To 13 credit hours with the condition they get back to a 2.0 GPA.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, and shout out to, you know, to James and Sally. Yeah, great, great people that I've gotten to meet and work with, I don't know James, is a another great supporter and listener of the podcast as well. And as far as he had the academic notice term and the change to that, for the CSU system, a lot of it actually started with Cal State University Fullerton, where they, for what I believe they ended up doing a survey to their students and kind of asking them about the terminology and kind of how it made them feel. And then based off that, and the research they've done, they went and switch, change some of that terminology to academic notice. And then it just seems like from there, a lot of other institutions have followed through our institution. We just switched it over, actually, at the beginning of January of this year. And so yeah, we it was a great process to do that. And, you know, to kind of see the change in time in terms of how students react to it, I think has been great as well. And I know Cal State Fullerton has also been able to present on it a few times in webinars, so shout out to Cal State Fullerton too.

Leslie Bell  
because I have I have I still have the PDF article for today. And I think they said San Bernardino because Fullerton was, the pioneer?

Matt Markin  
Uh huh. Yep. Yeah. So they kind of started started it, which is fantastic. And it's kind of led to Yeah, to multiple other institutions, not just within California, but you know, various other states. So it really kind of think about, what kind of terminology do we have? And how does this impact the various students that we have at our institutions? Now you're mentioning, you know, Sally, and James and being at conferences. And but I know also, what's important to you, in terms of networking has also been the topic of social media. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Leslie Bell  
Yes, yes, social media has really helped us in expanding academic advising the course. First, I'm very active on social media through Twitter/X. And also LinkedIn, because I have a strong network of advisers. And of course, the NACADA app, which I've had now for over a year and a half. And I'm still connecting with advisors from all over the country and all over the world, cause we all have a common goal is helping students succeed. Course. When, of course, we also the expansion of Facebook, and other forms of social media, like TikTok and Snapchat, and Instagram, academic advising and higher education, student affairs has evolved. Like, because I'm very active on social media trying to get our message out. Because sometimes out there is a question I might answer. Or if it's asked this way, or I may ask a question this way. Because one of the things I still miss, as on social media is the academic advising chat on Twitter, that every two, every Tuesday or every other Tuesday, I really loved the academic advising chat. Because a lot of us from across the country, talk about different topics. And because I've moderated a few times, it's really about letting our hair down. Talk about the topics in an unfiltered setting. And with that unfiltered setting, we can get we can get more information out. And we can answer questions in such a way that really helps us in our daily profession.

Matt Markin  
Who knows maybe that'll start up again, at some point, or there'll be some other way through social media or some other social media platform to maybe do something similar to that. And maybe you're the one that spearheads that. But I also want to kind of get your opinion on or your you know, your experience because I know if I remember correctly from you know, one of the conversations we had, like your institution has gone through like an advising restructure Is that am I remembering that correctly? 

Leslie Bell  
Yes. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah. So how was that how was that process gone? And how do you work through that that change while also inch During that your students, you know, are are not negatively impacted through changes that that end up happening through a restructure. 

Leslie Bell  
Our restructure was pretty effective towards the end of last semester. Because as mentioned, we have the five divisions, and a lot of a lot of us took different divisions, I took the division of education, our advising director has science and math and business. One advisor has humanities, and another advisor has social sciences, because those two new advisors, those two young those two gentlemen, we brought on on towards the end of last summer. And we just brought on a new advisor to our team who was working in Canvas activities. So we'll have a somewhat much another mini restructuring, he'll he'll have a caseload starting this fall. And of course, because we have a, we have a full advising team of five advisors, including our director, of course, with minds in education, because there are about Sep seven different programs that a person can graduate with a degree in. And of course, one is early childhood management and Associates. Another is child care management. And of course, there are elementary education, secondary education, business education, English music, education, math, education, and I believe music education. Because they're about seven or eight different education degrees, a student can receive a degree in education, of course, they have to play all the general education requirements, including algebra one, algebra two, which are both required, English comp, one English comp two to two classes of college orientation, at least one year of academic enrichment program, AP, and also when they reached their 30 of credit hour completed and a 2.0 GPA, they moved to the major. And of course, I stay in communication with the administrative assistant for the Division of Education and let them know who's coming over to the major, of course, I hand over the files, but we review the files first. And check off every class they've completed, I turn that file over to the to the director and she will review all the information. And when, when that file was ready, he will approve it and re it will be sent to the Division of Education. But before all of that, once a student reaches that 30 of credit hour of completion, I will send them a congratulatory email to let them know you're moving on to the major you've completed 30 credit hours, you'll be there in a few weeks. It's pending on the review of of our staff. And if it's approved, you're ready to go and then you're advising will be done by a division of Education Advisor through the through the consulting of the division of education as administrative assistant. Now on the other hand, for science and math and business which I used to advise, we have a tedious process, especially with the biology majors or any STEM major that we have do like General Biology one lecture and lab at the same time, same Prof. General Biology to lecture and lab in semester two, General Chemistry one, they start in math and algebra two in their first semester, and then they move to precalculus. And then they move on to calc one because the lot majority the students who come to rest college are STEM majors or business majors. And of course, our third largest major is social science, and of course, are in humanities. We have music majors now, the music program is that's been revitalized. And of course, we have education.

Matt Markin  
Kind of going on with advising you not only art advisor media with students, but you also have taught or teach classes, for example, a college orientation 111 and 112. Can you describe both those classes kind of the differences? 

Leslie Bell  
I will start with orientation 111. That's the first semester orientation class required of all of our students. And in that orientation class, we matriculate them into the societal aspects of Rust College through various different topics like campus safety, well being, study techniques and exam preparation, critical thinking, financial literacy, alumni relations, collegiate vocabulary, and school spirit, knowing about a four year degree plan, those are a lot of topics that cover an entire 16 week semester. And we let them know that you have to be aware of all of this history of the history, mission and vision of Rust College, as well as the different topics that that will be weighted to your future student success as a rest college student. And of course, we do discussion board assignments, and quizzes. And with a midterm and a final, and of course, in the second half of the semester, it's mostly guest speakers. I think my favorite part of the orientation 111 class is usually the campus safety portion, where we get a lot of lot of engagement. And I see that in the discussion board assignments, where students will post a lot about campus safety. And we see a lot of replies. Of course, safety is a is a big thing right now on college campuses. And of course, students have a midterm and final, of course, we teach those classes taught once a week. 

Matt Markin  
Definitely though it kind of fits within in being a once a week, it can definitely fit within their schedule with all their other classes. And you know, and then so you're mentioning the 111, how about the 112 class?

Leslie Bell  
Certainly. College Orientation 112 is way different than 111, where one to 111 is more about the aspects of college life. And knowing how to navigate the different areas of Rust college 112 is more about career readiness, where it's pretty much dominated by a college portfolio, where they should know how to write a resume, know how to how to write professional references, have a reference list, how to write a cover letter, how to do an elevator pitch, how to do informational interviewing, and job shadowing, and most importantly, how to do a mock interview, which are very important keys to have good financial literacy. And, and leave college with, with with a very moderate amount of student loan debt. Because we want students to have that knowledge and graduate in four years, and advise to apply for scholarships. So it makes sure they don't have they don't leave college with a lot of debt. Because every because both of these orientation classes are well typed back into financial literacy, because we make a major deal out of financial literacy in these orientation classes. Of course, with 112, because we there's more responsibility on the students to complete the assignments on time. With the final portfolio due on exam week, of course, that's the bulk of the grade. And this is my third semester teaching orientation 112. Of course, I really love the orientation class on the 112 site, where we're really getting into the nuts and bolts of how to apply for a job, how to write a resume, how to use professional business cards, because they're about seven or eight elements of the portfolio that has to be submitted there on exam week. And we have been I make sure, and I tell them this multiple times, it has to be unrestricted, or will not be graded.

Matt Markin  
I definitely love that, that you teach this class and that it's offered at your institution. Because you know, sometimes these are topics in terms of like resume cover letters, mock interviews, job searches that sometimes students might think about once they're at their senior status, and maybe they're a term or two out from graduating. So I'm glad that this is kind of built in, sort of from the beginning, that this, these are things that are important. These are things to really be thinking about throughout your time at the institution. And as we're getting close to time with the podcasts here. Leslie, tell me about your What are your thoughts on your future plans in higher ed?

Leslie Bell  
Yeah, yes. And of course, before I tell you that, of course, orientation 111 and 112 is required for graduation. Even better. So right now I'm in the process of gathering research for potentially writing at least one research paper for a future, the kind of conference whether it will be regional or an annual conference. And because just recently, I did some abstract evaluations. And I did five of them. And it was my first time doing abstract evaluations. Because I'm starting to right now I'm starting taking a more active role in NACADA. Of course, first in early April, we have NACADA elections. Of course, I just re upped my membership for another year. I did that last week. And my plans for the future are potentially going into a doctoral program, possibly and Doctor of Education or doctor philosophy program in higher education administration, where I want to like focus my research on academic progression of first year student athletes, or academic progression of students with disabilities, or looking at a group or looking at underrepresented students who are in their first year and are struggling academically. Because I do not know where my research wants to go with I want to do a doctor philosophy with a dissertation were worth knowing I might go in do faculty research, or write a dissertation in practice with the EdD and I've looked at several doctoral programs, and I won't name them right now. Because it's, it's all in the process stages, because I look at each doctoral program based on its own merits. And of course, with the master's degree, I have I have enough experience now to understand and the expectations of doing a doctoral program, while working full time. If there's, there's that's a that's a lot more pressure. But it's also as professional, I have to handle time management. And if I were given a chance to do a doctoral program, and a lot of these more programs are increasingly online, where I won't have to leave an office. And just like conduct research at night, or during the day when the advising pure is in period of slow and just just complete just complete assignments. So that's where I'm going with that right now. Because I can also see myself continuing to working in academic advising with first year students, or working in a different capacity with students in a in a degree granting college. Because I really like working with students, especially on the first year side or on academic probation or notice it really meet them where they're at.

Matt Markin  
For sure. A lot, a lot of great things that I think are coming in your future. And lastly, sensor in your bio, you mentioned professional wrestling, I feel like I have to ask you this question to end this podcast interview. So we're recording this before Wrestlemania 40. That's going to happen in early April. This podcast episode will end up being posted after WrestleMania is done so let's let's see if you end up being right on this you know Cody Rhodes vs. Roman Reigns for the WWE Universal Championship. Do you think Cody Rhodes finishes his story? Or will the rock and Roman Reigns put a story on hold for another year?

Leslie Bell  
I really feel that Cody's going to finish his story this year. Because he got robbed last year. 

Matt Markin  
I agree. I definitely hope he wins. I was I happen to be at WrestleMania 39 at SoFi stadium last year, and I will tell you like I was so ready for him to win. And when he lost it was like the energy just got sucked out of that stadium and like a lot of us. You could just hear people just complaining and being so upset that he didn't win. So yeah, I agree. I think he's got he's got to win it this year. 

Leslie Bell  
There's there's a wildcard in that. Damien Priest till has that Money in the Bank briefcase. 

Matt Markin  
That is true and he might use it at some time. 

Leslie Bell  
He might he might cash in on the world title match. Get to take the title up off of Seth Rollins and Drew McIntyre. Or he might go for Roman and Cody in either one could become a triple threat match.

Matt Markin  
That is true. So we will see what happens. I will see you both of us are right when this episode gets posted. But Leslie Bell, thank you so much for being on the podcast and thank you so much again for being a longtime supporter and listener of the podcast as well. 

Leslie Bell  
Thank you, Matt. I'll continue to be listening to the podcast and attending the NACADA conferences.