A Shared Goal of Student Success - Adventures in Advising

In episode 96, Matt Markin chats with Joan Krush, assistant director for member engagement at the NACADA Executive Office. Joan discusses her past experience in admissions and advising, building positive relationships between primary role advisors and faculty, as well as the revamp of the Emerging Leaders Program and why you should apply as an emerging leader or mentor. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hey there, welcome to another exciting episode of the Adventures and Advising podcast. This is Matt Markin, and we are at episode 96, on our way to Episode 100. Our guest today is someone I've known for a few years but only as an employee of the NACADA organization but recently realized how involved they have been in higher education prior to NACADA and that is Joan Krush. Joan Krush was a first generation transfer student who got involved in higher education as an undergraduate Summer Orientation Leader and admissions office tour guide. She holds a BS in contemporary media and journalism from the University of South Dakota and an MA in student development and post secondary education from the University of Iowa and Nakata members since 2005. Joan worked as a professional academic advisor at the University of Nebraska Lincoln, where she advised biochemistry majors in the College of Arts and Sciences, as well as majors in the College of Agricultural Sciences and Natural Resources. While at UNL. She was the first professional advisor to receive the Outstanding Undergraduate Student Advisor award in the College of Agricultural Sciences and Natural Resources. In addition, she received the certificate of recognition for significant contributions to students by UNLV parents associations in 2005 2006 2007 and 2008. She also co taught a career opportunities in biochemistry course to begin in biochemistry majors, and taught food agriculture and natural resource systems courses to first year students in the college. In Fall 2009, Joan began advising undergraduates in the College of Sciences and Mathematics at North Dakota State University where she also taught a skills for academic success course. As a professional academic advisor in the Department of Computer Science. She received NDSU 2014 Award for Excellence in academic advising for undergraduates, and Joan also received the micarta outstanding new advisor award for the academic advising primary role category in 2008. And then a caught outstanding advisor award academic advising primary role category in 2015. Joan Krush joined the NACADA Executive Office at Kansas State University in December 2019. As Assistant Director for member engagement, having previously served on a contract basis as project manager for the NACADA region review project. Joan, and welcome to the podcast. 

Joan Krush  
Thanks, Matt. It's a pleasure to be here. 

Matt Markin  
I'm so glad that this worked out that we have you on for the podcast, I know for sure to talk about anakata stuff, but I thought it'd be great to talk more about you and your background. And again, like I was saying, at the beginning, I've known you only as Joan from the gada. But finding out about your background, I was like, oh, we gotta get Joan on here.

Joan Krush  
You're sweet things. I appreciate it very much.

Matt Markin  
So, Joan, tell us more about you. I know we heard from your bio about that your transfer. So you know, you've worked in admissions and advising. Tell us more about your path into higher ed. 

Joan Krush  
Well, South Dakota is my home state. So you'll you'll get a pattern here of Midwest troubles for me, but as a first generation college student I, I wanted to I wanted to go to college and navigate that environment. And I worked I found an opportunity at a small private college, where I started, I wanted to do writing or mass communication. And then I ended up transferring and getting a degree and headed out to the workforce. But my undergraduate experiences in the college setting were in recruitment and working for the admissions office and giving tours and talking to prospective students. And that was something that I found a lot of joy in. And if I wanted to pursue that, as a career, stay in the college setting. And so I found a job entry level position in admissions and worked for a small private college and learned a lot there, got to meet in in work with some great families and students and found out that it was about the fit. It was finding students and talking about my institution and having them feel like this is where they belong. This is where they see themselves. This is where they can launch their careers from that undergraduate experience. And I had an opportunity to work at a variety of small private colleges at the time in traveled all across the Midwest. The thing that I really found that was foundational is that that transformation that students make from that high school students that high school graduate and coming into the college setting, finding out about themselves littles and finding their people and then wanting to just launch their career from there. And so I really value that. And it was great to be a part of that experience. I also started a master's program while I was working in admissions, and then ended up doing that full time. And once I got my master's degree, in student development, I, I was really trying to decide if I wanted to do admissions or advising, and ended up continuing with my role in admissions and recruitment. And then I had an opportunity at a new institution to be paired with someone who has a mentor on the campus. And so we sat in that frequently, but she was an academic advisor. And that, for me, was transformational. All of her work and her comments about opportunities and meeting with students and helping them grow and develop their path was something that really resonated with me. And so then I made the transition into academic advising. And that was something that was a certainly a risk for me, but also recognize it was a risk for the department that hired me as a full time professional advisor, because I, of course, had the admissions and recruitment experience, but didn't have as much advising. And so they took a chance on me and helped guide me and were great mentors. And that was an experience that I had at the University of Nebraska Lincoln and the biochemistry department. And I can't say enough about the faculty there who really guided me and were mentors. And then also the other academic advising professionals on campus that just surrounded me with care and nurturing and, and we helped each other through and learned a lot about what best works best for students, and worked collaboratively. And that's something that I carry carry on with me into my work here at NACADA. So that's something that I think as we're talking about fit, and we're talking about collaboration, those are all themes that are very transferable, and that I feel like him have guided me through my career and my path and ended up here in the executive office.

Matt Markin  
And I feel like I am connecting with you more because I used to work in admissions as well. And I feel like my transition from admissions to advisor was kind of very similar in the sense of also not knowing, like having the admissions background, but not necessarily like the advising background, but I had the transferable skills to learn it, which I do want to ask you about, because you're mentioned risk of going from admissions to advising and then taking a chance on you. What was that transition? Like? Like, for me, when I first started, I thought I had enough that I was like, oh, I'll just kind of smooth right into this position. And then I was like, Oh my gosh, there's so much more to advising. I really had like the informational piece and admissions. But I had so many other things I had to learn in advising. How was it for you? 

Joan Krush  
there's so many layers, right? And then I think, for me, it was a, I think I felt competent in my skill set of like, I can have a conversation with students. And we can talk about what are your goals? And how are you with this? And where are your strengths and kind of connecting them to coursework and folks on campus. But the the key thing for me was that there was more pressure in that what I tell this person, this young person is going to affect him for the rest of their lives. Like it's really just that causes you some sleeplessness, and some stress because there's, you put a lot of pressure I did anyway, I put a lot of pressure on myself to say, okay, so this, this four year plan, this graduation plan we're putting together here is going to impact this person's life. And so that's something that was very serious, and you want it to be really good at and that's not something that starts instantly. And so yeah, there's a lot of pressure.

Matt Markin  
Absolutely. But I was like you wouldn't you were talking about being in admissions and how you know, the student when they start is different from when they leave. And it kind of relates to a part in a quote from an article that you are a part of that was in the day in the life of, you know, an admissions employee. And so your quote in there you said like whether a student's personal transformation begins the first day or the first semester I know that four years later, there is guaranteed to be a different person walking through the commencement ceremonies and I than the one I originally Welcome to our school. And you know, in advice and it's great because for a lot of us with caseload like student we have in the beginning, we get to kind of see you there. growth, maybe their challenges their successes throughout the time. And then it's like, wow, okay, now they've graduated.

Joan Krush  
Yes, that's that's so remarkable, right? The impact that you have as an academic advisor on this person's life, and then it becomes times whatever your caseload is two. And so it's just the impact that academic advisors have is transformational. And it's incredible. It's a, it's a great amount of power and responsibility and for certain, but I think when, when you're an academic advisor, and you have that student who asks you pops in your office and says, Hey, are you going to be our graduation, and I want you to meet my family. And I want to introduce you to my family. And because you've been so integral to my success here at this institution, and where I go next. And so that's just, that's just incredible.

Matt Markin  
Now, when you were at North Dakota State University, I believe you, when you advise computer science students, you were the sole advisor in that department. Now at some of the other institutions you worked at as an advisor, was it the same thing? Or were there multiple advisors within the department?

Joan Krush  
Oh, I was departmental based. And so professional advisors was the terminology we use at the time, when I started in biochemistry at the University of Nebraska Lincoln. I was the the sole academic advisor within that program, but of course relied on folks who had other expertise for minors and double majors and pre professional aspirations and such. But the program grew so much that then we added staff in an advisory capacity to that program. And so, but predominantly, my role has been within a unit or department and then worked a lot with faculty. And that's a different dynamic too.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, now we can definitely ask you about that too. But you were mentioning the girl in the program, because I believe with the computer science students like it was you grew to over 400 students, and then 8% included female students, like how did you and your the department go about growing the program?

Joan Krush  
Well, we did a fair amount of outreach, I think using again, my recruitment admissions background was pretty easy for me to put myself in front of prospective students who are visiting campus. And if you're a female, and you're representing a male dominated program, that speaks volumes, and I think, in particular, the computer science department at NDSU was very conscientious of the gender dynamics within a program. And, and the computer science department has quite a few female faculty within it. So that speaks volumes as well to the strength of that program was putting female instructors in front of prospective students, but also female students. And so that helps grow the program but but doing outreach certainly is, is a key component in not just high school students, its middle school students, and its elementary students. And so I had an opportunity to be a part of our computer science students outreaching to a local elementary school where we taught students code, and we did that to second and third graders. And it was incredible. And it got students really excited and jazzed about computer science wherever they might end up. But those types of outreach activities help promote not only the program, but also showing role models to young people. 

Matt Markin  
And you're talking about, like the transferable skills and a sense to from admissions to your job and advising. And part of me things like advisors should go through some sort of admissions training, because when we present like those who work in admissions that who have had to do outreach and recruitment, are constantly doing presentations and trying to engage students and you know, and that's You get those skills when you actually are presenting at orientation for new students. And then when you're doing presentations throughout the term, like for first year events and things like that. So, again, connecting with you from the admissions part, because there's, I think there are some people that like, Well, I'm just gonna go and when I present, I just give the information. But then you're not engaging the students. And then the students just doesn't goes information goes in one ear and out the other.

Joan Krush  
Yeah, and I think retention, of course, you can't have this conversation without talking about retention. And on college campuses, it's commonly said, retention is everyone's job. And I think, of course, it's those touch points where you can get in front of students, or you can have a one on one experience with students. That's, that's what helps retain students at your institution and keeps them progressing through their degree. So that's critical too.

Matt Markin  
And earlier I mentioned faculty and so I do want to jump to that because you co wrote an article back in 2010. And that was called professional advisors and faculty advisors, a shared goal of student success. And in it, you wrote about ways professional advisors and faculty advisors can work together to better help our students, you know, such as developing an advising syllabus, working together to identify career options for students holding, advising update meetings with faculty, or even having advisors individually meet with faculty. So you know, it's it's 14 years later since that that article was was published. So I guess for you, you know, do you believe institutions, you know, from, from your experience, and from your work in the kata, do you believe institutions are doing that? Or those are still things that could or should be done?

Joan Krush  
That's a great question. I'm, it certainly was the case at the time. And, and I don't know that we do enough. We have enough conversations about what it could be like, I, I'm, unfortunately, think there's maybe a bit of a us versus them situation. And I'm totally against that kind of conversation. But it happens. I think the the approach is collaboration, and how can we work together, and I think are was the experience for me is that working with on the student level as an academic advisor, and then having that student move to working with faculty, that student comes to a faculty member much more informed about their their career goals, but also their course selection, and have thought more about their elements of their degree plan? Because they've been informed by their Academic Advisor. And I do think that faculty realize that without that component in those conversations, the impact of an academic advisor, that student is not as wouldn't be in as positive of a position to work with them as a faculty member without that impact. So, you know, it's, it's all threaded through, it's a collaborative relationship, and it needs to be collaborative. Because otherwise, I think, the student experience is sacrificed. And we, that's something that we just don't want,

Matt Markin  
Let's say there's an advisor that, you know, sees the potential in this, maybe their institution, they kind of have faculty and professional advisors separate, there's no real kind of clear line of communication or engagement. But the advisors like this, this could work. I've read John's article, and, you know, these are great steps I think we could do, but now that you know, they have to convince probably their supervisor who then has to convince their supervisor. Any advice for that advisor to kind of help make that a reality?

Joan Krush  
Well, I think your point is well taken in that you have to have buy in certainly by whomever your supervisor is as an as an advisor. If it's the, if it's the dean of the college, or certainly it's the chair or unit director where you are, but I think it's also the students. I think, if you can create your narrative, it helps them students, essentially saying, This has created great value for me, and I need there to be this collaborative relationship. And I think that's one way to consider I know it's difficult I can recall, asking to be a part of faculty meetings as a, quote staff member, but I was really fortunate at North Dakota State. The faculty understood the relationship of the curriculum. them, and the decisions that are made about coursework and prerequisites, and how having the input from the professional advisor within that unit informs, everyone helped make the program stronger, but also the students who are in the program, they can see that pathway. And then it's a much more cohesive experience for everyone. And when that happens, everybody wins. But especially our students when.

Matt Markin  
I think if I think this could work for maybe a centralized advising models, if you have like, a lot of the advisors in the same office, they potentially could each be a liaison to a different major department. And then maybe they're doing like, monthly or at least once a semester kind of meeting with that department chair, and then they can both share, you know, Hey, these are the students we're reaching out to these are the holes replacing or, you know, what else? Can you tell us about the major that we can then give back to the advisors? And just, you know, make sure we're all giving correct information?

Joan Krush  
Yes, absolutely. Yeah, communication is key. Exactly.

Matt Markin  
As an advisor, you were very active in the kata, can you talk about some of the roles that you had?

Joan Krush  
I would love to. So my work in Nebraska and my work in North Dakota, I'll place me in Region six. And what I recall being aware of Mikata, when I spent time in Nebraska, and in certainly wanted to try to be a part of the region conference experience. Because that at the time was where professional development could be, could be funneled toward, and in, so I thought, well, the first thing I need to do is, is go to a region conference and present something. And so in order for me to feel like I knew where to start, I first volunteered to be a reader for reaching proposals, because I did not really have a good idea of what I needed to prepare as far as the proposal. And so that is where I started. And that proved to be valuable for me, certainly, but also was a great way for me to volunteer from where I was, from my office setting. And that seemed like kind of a pretty easy place to start. But it was a win win. So self serving, I recognized right, because I'm also trying to educate myself on submitting a good conference proposal. But I started there, and then presented at region conferences, and then ended up moving to North Dakota, where I asked, Hey, is there anybody on campus who knows anything about NACADA, and was lucky enough to get to know some folks on campus and connect there. And that's, that's the thing about academic advisors is you've got a network, you got to figure out who's in your choosing your support circle. And, and that's no matter where you go. And I that's very similar to nokhada, for me, is creating your circle creating your network. And so I got more involved in micarta by being on the region steering committee, because there was a state liaison position that became available, and I raised my hand and thought I could maybe give that a whirl. And so I spent some time on the steering committee, I also wasn't having an opportunity to be a mentor through the ramp program. And so that was a really great experience for me to be a part of the reach and mentoring program. I just I loved that experience. I love having a mentee. And I learned a lot from my mentee. Hope she learned a couple of things for me too. And, and then as, as what happens in this association is there are always ample opportunities to get involved. So had an opportunity to plan to drive in nearby my institution. And so put together a drive in an opportunity for academic advisors to come in learn, and then head back home. And then I had an opportunity in 2014 when the annual conference came to Minneapolis, Minnesota had an opportunity to be on the annual conference committee, proposal chair. So that was really fun, and a great way to be a part of micarta and to volunteer, and most of that can be done from my office space, and then had an opportunity to attend the annual conference in 2014. That served as a great opportunity for me to them The next year plan the region conference. And so those, those opportunities just keep coming and going and threaten their way through. And I am so lucky, I feel lucky to be part of an association that that pulls together and wants what's best for anyone who's attending a region conference or an annual conference. And it's just been really fun to be a part of those volunteer opportunities in so now, I am seeing the other side of that from the executive office standpoint, but as a member, as a volunteer, especially in my region, but also through throughout the association, that those chances to be involved are ones that I will always value and treasure and be grateful for.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, well, I think that's a great segue in terms of what led you to going from being an academic advisor to all sudden being in the NACADA Executive Office.

Joan Krush  
Yeah, that's another transition opportunity for me. So I found myself moving to Manhattan, Kansas, and I knew full well, that NACADA was based here. And so had looked at advising opportunities here in the area, but also made an outreach to Charlie Nutt, who was currently the Executive Director and just said, I'm moving to Manhattan, if there are any opportunities. Maybe perhaps we could have a conversation. And just so happened, the timing was such that the region review project has just gotten together and their goals and survey and needed a little bit of project management. And so I, I came on board, in the executive office, to work on the region review, got to meet wonderful people here in the executive office who are very committed to this association and what it does, and in supporting all of the work of NACADA, but then also, folks outside of my region experience who I'm on a global scale, we're being a part of a very integral part of the region review, and also just wanting to promote the association as well. 

Matt Markin  
Now you know, your role your assistant director for member engagement, but then you're also coordinator things liaison things. Can you talk about what what your role entails?

Joan Krush  
What do you all do here? Just a couple of things. I so my formal role here, my title is Assistant Director for member engagement. But I work primarily in member engagement and leadership development. And I. So I work with our 14,000 members, just as everyone here and our office does, but a little bit more so, but I also liaison to a few groups that are part of our administrative division. So I liaison to the membership recruitment and retention committee, and to the sustainable NACADA leadership committee, as well as the emerging leaders, program coordinator and the emerging leaders advisory board, just to name a few, but I'd love I can, I'd love to talk about all of them.

Matt Markin  
Need a part two? Do you feel like your previous experience as an academic advisor, working with students, maybe the transferable skills and assists you with giving like maybe a unique perspective as an executive office employee of NACADA?

Joan Krush  
Maybe probably, you should probably ask do a little survey here of the executive office, but they might tire of me constantly saying, Well, I wonder what our members would ask for, I wonder what our members would say. So, yes, and I try not to say too many times, try not to say preface things with saying, Well, when I was an academic advisor, you know, because I don't want to be that person. But I but I, perhaps the experiences that I had, certainly, as an academic advisor and at previous institutions and being a member of NACADA, I perhaps do bring a couple, I don't know a little perspective to our operations here. But of course, you know, we we have folks who are very capable, and always willing to have conversations, because our goal here is what's best for our members. And I'm a I am a fan of best idea wins. But we need to have the dialogue and the conversation to work through to take that big idea and move it all the way to implementation and the best way that we can.

Matt Markin  
Yeah. 100%. And so one of the things you mentioned that you overseas Emerging Leaders Program, and from what I hear the Emerging Leaders Program is back from being on a sort of hiatus for a little bit. So can you talk about like, why the pause for the Emerging Leaders Program? And what's new with with the revamp?

Joan Krush  
Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you asked. We're super excited about the relaunch of the 2024 Emerging Leaders Program. So for a bit of context, right, we, the Emerging Leaders Program began with the inclusion Engagement Committee, which sought to increase and support leadership to reflect the diversity of our members. And that was really the genesis, the ELP objective is to grow makhado leadership, we want to advance the academic advising profession, and we want to foster leaders and mentors in the association. But leadership can really start anywhere. I want to acknowledge that we connect promising emerging leaders, with mentors, supported by a curriculum and guided conversations to foster leadership growth within NACADA. So the ELP program was, had been going strong for 15 years. And that says a lot. We have over 300 folks who have been part of the Emerging Leaders Program. And there was a bit of a change, we had a retirements in the executive office, we have a new executive director, and it just seemed that there might be an opportunity to just take a pause, and do a little bit of an assessment to see where the program has been, and where it could go. And so the Emerging Leaders advisory board was tasked with taking some time to look at the program. We started with contacting current and former emerging leaders, leaders and mentors, to ask about their experience, their observations, and their suggestions. And so the ELP Advisory Board has spent really the last 15 months discussing formulating and enhancing the Emerging Leaders Program. And we're really excited that it's been relaunched. There are some changes to the program as a result. And we we are really veiled unveiled rather, those changes, but we've we're moving from the paired the one to one, emerging leader, mentor pairing to more of cohorts or teams, there'll be smaller teams. But we, the feedback we received from mentors and from emerging leaders was that they wanted a bit of a greater access to a build a network that's bigger than what a pair might support. And, and that benefits everyone, it benefits our emerging leaders, but it benefits our mentors as well, in connecting folks to where those opportunities might exist for leadership development, the program start in July. And so the program runs July to July. And it that's not dissimilar to the original setting, it's just that we're being a bit more conscientious about having that start and stop. So that there isn't maybe this kind of like hanging on past the that two year commitment. We've developed a curriculum that would be executed through monthly virtual meetings. For the first and second years of the Emerging Leaders Program, where we will talk about bold developments, we will hear from leaders, we will talk about opportunities for leadership and growth on a monthly basis with that group. And there's been some changes to the funding aspect of the Emerging Leaders Program. We have moved to a need based funding availability. We recognize that some folks may have professional development funding support from their institution and where others may not and would need to complete once accepted into the program, what we're calling a funding request form for expenses based upon their demonstrated needs. So asking folks where their need is, and to let us know stuff that can be reviewed for funding. We also added for our mentors, this was based upon very important feedback from current and former ELP mentors but to have access to request to have their annual conference registration fee paid as part of their role as an emerging later mentor within the program. So the requirements of those selected to attend the annual conference in their first year is still a component or is a main component of the ELP relaunch. We will do a formal orientation and goal setting at that first group meeting. That will happen at the annual conference. But we don't require folks to attend other conferences. And maybe that had been sort of required or understood earlier. So the ELP, cohort applications and materials are all online and being accepted through May 15.

Matt Markin  
Right, and when you say, those that are in the program, it's July to July, we're talking a July like two years. So like those for July 2024? through July 2020.

Joan Krush  
Yes, thank you. Yeah, that's great clarification.

Matt Markin  
And then also a supervisory letter, or supervisor. 

Joan Krush  
That's new this year, we have two supervisor related items that were added. One is really an information sheet. So that if you're someone who is considering applying to the program, and you would want to talk with your supervisor about the feasibility of that, and support from that supervisor, there is an information sheet that you can provide that talks about the expectations of the Emerging Leaders Program, so that it can be very transparent for you and for your supervisor. And then secondarily, a part of the application process is supervisor letter, we have a template that we provide. So it's just it's more of an acknowledgment from us to provide a standpoint so that supervisors understand, again, what the requirements are for the program to support our Emerging Leaders, when selected.

Matt Markin  
Now, I'm sure you probably have gotten this question and or will from from multiple people. So let's say someone's going through and they're like, this sounds like a great program, I would really want to do it. You know, I've read over kind of what's expected. But the two year commitment. Two years, it just seems like so long. I don't know, like, I don't know what I'm doing. And, you know, six months? Well, what's your advice to someone that's like, on the fence of applying, but maybe they're just concerned about that. The two year part?

Joan Krush  
Yeah. Well, I, I think we need to be transparent. And I think we need to understand the process in that if we are fostering leadership for our future, the kind of leaders that does take time there for elected and appointed positions, for chairs, advisory boards and such. There's a there's an election process. And so getting folks familiar with what's the timeline of that process? What does that look like what is expected of me as a potential candidate in that nomination process, and just it that does take a little bit of time to sort of understand where you want to go? And then what are the steps needed, because oftentimes is being a member of a particular committee for a period of time before then that chair option becomes something that's available to you for to be elected to. And so that's, that's part of sort of the learning process. And our role through the ELP is to connect folks to kind of where do you is it research that you're headed toward? Is it in a region? Is it in an advising community? Is it in the administrative division? Where do you see those opportunities, but I think it's one thing to ask someone right away, where do you think you're headed? You know, like, what are your goals in the next two years? It's also having a conversation about well, did you know about the region division, and all the options that are available for leadership? And so, or the advising communities and all of the roles that are available for leadership? Because we do I think our folks a disservice if we don't first have those conversations. And then then it becomes I can make an informed decision as an emerging leader as to where I'm going to set my goal. rules, so that I can make my mark and provide myself with the pathway to leadership within the association. And so that takes time. And so that two year commitment is is there predominantly for that particular reason?

Matt Markin  
Now, let's say someone applies, and I say they don't get accepted, is that kind of like a be all end all? Or can they apply for the following year? 

Joan Krush  
So it's not an end all be all. And there will be more applications we anticipate, then we have space. And, and that, unfortunately, is kind of where we're at. But also fortunately, because we, we want the strength of the program to be our folks who are part of the program. And so we are looking for demonstrated leadership, wherever you are right now. And whether it's on your campus, and you're wanting to transition to leadership within the Canada, or if you've been involved in the Canada and you want to work your way toward other leadership opportunities within the kata, but we're looking for that application to detail for us. What you have been doing as far as leadership, however you define that on your campus, and where you are in your professional growth. And so it might seem a bit vague for us to be asking you to indicate. But that's purposeful, as to not dictate to you that checkmark, there's not a checklist of did this person have this one thing? And did they list this other thing? It's what have you demonstrated as far as leadership that we can say, Here's someone who has some leadership experience, who would be a great candidate for the Emerging Leaders Program. But yes, if if you are not selected in your first year, please continue to hold on to that information. Add to it in the next year, show us some growth and additional leadership so that that strengthens your application in the future. Now

Matt Markin  
for the mentor kind of going along with that is sometimes I think there's a misconception that, oh, if I wasn't in the Emerging Leaders Program, I can't apply as a mentor. 

Joan Krush  
Thank you for asking that. Because it is not expected that a mentor within the program have has been someone who's been a part of the Emerging Leaders Program. We have a mix, of course, in our mentor, grouping of folks who are quite familiar, having been an emerging leader, but also folks who just have the who are great mentors, who didn't maybe have an opportunity or wasn't available to them at the time. But they are folks who are in a position to foster leadership among our association. And our mentors are just incredible people who are also very busy and very involved, but they still, that's where they want to give their time. And energy is as a mentor to the Emerging Leaders Program. And I just I applaud that sense of duty and passion that those folks have.

Matt Markin  
And I know we're getting close to time. So I'm gonna tell him one more question. And are there any updates you can share regarding the Sustainable NACADA Leadership Committee?

Joan Krush  
Right, so Sustainable NACADA Leadership has been working hard behind the scenes, they are focused on building that next generation of the NACADA leadership, and so that the sustainable Leadership Committee has been developing content for elected and appointed leaders to access content to help them prepare for their leadership role. And predominantly that has been seen in our leadership onboarding course, for newly elected or appointed leaders. And that content, which helps prepare folks for their leadership role is is a new initiative. And this group has also have formed additional subcommittees to look into expanding to develop to, to sorry to add programs that are developing new leaders, but also information for advanced leaders within the association. So those are initiatives that the sustainable leadership committee is working on.

Matt Markin  
I feel like this is a great interview. I learned a lot more about you and hopefully listeners as well know about more about your background, your why being in the NACADA Executive Office, the great things going on the Emerging Leaders Program. Hopefully a lot of people end up applying either as an emerging leader or as a mentor. You know, I can definitely attest to the positive positive tivity of the program and things that come out of it and what you gain from it and also expanding and pushing the car forward. So, Joan Krush, thank you so much for being on the podcast. 

Joan Krush  
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Matt.