Reframing Perspectives - Adventures in Advising

In episode 85, we interview Alex Kunkle, director of academic advising at Nevada State University. Alex chats about utilizing a centralized advising model, management styles, NACADA involvement, and supporting students experiencing shame and guilt. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hello. You're listening to the Adventures in Advising podcast. This is Matt Markin, and welcome to episode 85. Thank you for tuning in if you don't already subscribe to this podcast on your favorite podcast platform. On today's episode, our special guest is Alex Kunkle from Nevada State University. Alex started an academic advising as a peer advisor back in 2007 and following graduation, was hired as a full time advisor at Western Oregon University. Through several years at his alma mater, Alex accepted a position at Nevada State University, formerly Nevada State College, in 2017 Alex is the director of academic advising at Nevada State overseeing the centralized Academic Advising Center. Alex has been actively involved in NACADA since 2012 giving his first presentation at the region eight conference in Portland, Oregon. Since then, Alex has delivered over two dozen regional, annual and international presentations and has written several publications for academic advising today. Additionally, Alex has served on a number of regional and association level committees, chaired the probation dismissal, reinstatement interest group, the global awards committee and the annual conference advisory board, and chaired two NACADA conferences. Alex was a participant in the Emerging Leaders Program and subsequently also served as a mentor. Alex was awarded the new advisor of the Year award in 2013 and the outstanding advising administrator award in 2022 Alex will begin his term as the administrative division rep and on the NACADA Council following the annual conference in Orlando, 2023.  Alex, welcome to the podcast. 

Alex Kunkle  
Thanks, Matt, glad to be here.

Matt Markin  
Now, listeners just got to hear your bio, and I know there will be a lot to chat about. But can you go a little bit more into your journey into higher ed and where you are currently at? 

Alex Kunkle  
Of course. my journey in higher ed really started in the way that it starts for a lot of people, which is I just kind of fell into it. When I was pursuing my undergraduate degree. I originally was planning on becoming a high school history teacher, and I was pursuing that for the first couple of years. At the time, I had a roommate who worked in academic advising, and they suddenly had a departure of several student workers, and so she recommended me to her boss at the time, and I went in for an interview and was hired as a student worker. And it was actually once I got into academic advising as a peer advisor, that I started to realize that my journey was more suited for higher education than the traditional K through 12 environment, and so I changed my major. Pursued an alternative degree. Actually, I got two bachelor's degrees, one in communication studies and second in social science. But the intention was probably to go towards higher education. Following my graduation, I was fortunate that after I graduated, my supervisor at the time had a temporary position open, and I decided to throw my hat in the ring for that and was hired into that role. And the temporary role lasted quite a while, and then eventually I was hired on as a full time academic advisor. I stayed in that role for a number of years. Was promoted into a coordinator of academic advising role, and then in 2016 I decided it was time for the next step. I knew that my supervisor really didn't have any intention of leaving Western Oregon at the time, and so I knew that if I wanted to move up, I was going to need to move elsewhere. Started applying around for director level positions, and that was an exciting process, because I wasn't really sure how I was going to stack up at the time. I had completed my master's degree at that point, but I had served at one institution my entire career, but there was interest there, which was exciting, and I was able to be specific, really looking for what I was looking for an employer and a location that was right for me and for my family at the time, and so that brought me to Las Vegas, or Henderson, which is suburb of Las Vegas, for Nevada State College, where I became their first Director of Academic Advising. They had academic advising on campus and an Academic Advising Center, but they had never hired a director. They had an administrative level position that kind of oversaw multiple offices, but not somebody who had expertise in academic advising or direct experience in academic advising. So I really got to build the office the way that I wanted to, and they gave me a lot. Flexibility to redesign everything they had started to transition to a centralized model before I got there, but there were still some outliers, some faculty advising, especially after students reached 60 credits, we transitioned the students over to a faculty advisor, but it was more of an informal process. There wasn't a full mandatory advising or anything like that for students after they left the advising center. So we expanded mandatory advising. We have further centralized almost all advising on campus, with the exception of a few professional programs. We do entire mandatory advising for all other populations here, and I've been in this role for the last six and a half years as the director, and I'm currently pursuing my doctorate degree in public policy, really focused on higher education policy and how policy can impact student success in higher education. So that's sort of my background and where I'm at today.

Matt Markin  
Feel like you don't have time to do anything else after everything you just named.

Alex Kunkle  
I have a lot of goals, but time, time is always the issue right now.

Matt Markin  
What struck me is like you were mentioning in terms of moving up, and the term you used was like you were excited with this whole process, you know, looking at other institutions and, you know, looking for director positions. And I would think that that term, probably most people would say it's nerve wracking to go through that process, but for you, like you actually looked at it from a more positive type of standpoint.

Alex Kunkle  
I did. I mean, the hardest thing for me when I was thinking about leaving was actually leaving my supervisor. And for those of you who know who my former supervisor is, you'll know why working for this individual was a great experience. She's my mentor, and she really, she really gave me a lot of opportunities as I was developing as a professional. I mean, I remember as a student worker. Yes, I had had jobs before, hourly jobs before, in retail and things like that, but this was really the first professional setting that I had ever been in. And I came from very much a lower to middle class background, you know, first gen on one side and the other side, they went to college, but I didn't really feel that I got that sort of professional support or preparation for college at the time. And so my mentor really became someone who guided me through a lot of my development. And so leaving that individual was was the most frightening thing about the process, but I knew it was time for me, and if I wanted to continue my development, I was going to need to sort of step out on my own and do that elsewhere. And so that's why it was exciting. It was also a very small town. And again, for those of you know me, my personality does not typically want to be in a small town, quiet solitude. That's not who I am. So being able to look at different larger cities and more opportunity was was exciting, because I had spent 12 years, including my undergraduate degree, time in a very small town, and it was it was time. So I was excited, even though it was going to be a big change, and again, I don't know. I did not know what the future would necessarily bring. Am I somebody who will excel in a director type of role, supervising people and really setting the policy and the direction of an office? I just kind of jumped in and I believed in myself, which was hard, but exciting.

Matt Markin  
And being at Nevada State University like you kind of described a little bit about the centralized advising model, types of students that you meet with. For those that want a little bit more info or not sure about Nevada State University, how would you describe your institution?

Alex Kunkle  
So Nevada State University is one of the fastest growing institutions in the country. We opened in 2002 so we're just over 20 years old, and actually, this July, we officially became Nevada State University. We primarily serve as a teaching institution. We're not a Research One institution. We are very small, small class sizes, personalized learning experiences for our students trying to fill that need for teaching students in Nevada and providing opportunities for students who may not traditionally have been able to reach higher education. Our president calls these students the new majority. We are a Spain serving institution. Over half of our students are eligible and almost 60% are first generation students. About 4500 undergraduate students. We only offer one of. Currently one master's program, but it really has been the focus to provide that opportunity to students and still maintain that sort of personalized learning experience that not all research one institutions are able to provide to students, and just a different experience that some students may be looking for, rather than going to a larger r1 institution, Nevada State, very much reminds me of my former institution, of my alma mater, 4500 students, Hispanic serving institution, so say, a teaching focus. So sort of the same experience. So it made that transition for me a little easier in that it was the same type of institution. I wasn't going from a four year to a community college or a four year to a large R1 but Nevada State really is a place that, and I know that all institutions say this, but it really is a place for the students that their number one priority is the students. And so when I come up with a new policy or a new idea and it's going to benefit students, there is a lot of support from the institution to make that happen. And that's the kind of place that Nevada state is. It's also very innovative in that when we were founded, we based our entire policy and curriculum and everything after one of the larger institutions here in Nevada, in the University of Nevada, Reno, flagship institution here in the state. But we're a different institution than UNR is, and so the policies and the procedures that may work for them don't necessarily work for Nevada state. And so we've been given a lot of flexibility to say, let's look at the population that we're serving, and how can we adjust our policies, our procedures, our curriculum, to fit their needs, and that's and everyone rolls up their sleeves and tries to make that happen. And it's a work in progress, even though we're 20 years old, in the grand scheme of things, 20 as institutions, very young, and we're still we're still learning and we're still adapting, but there's a lot of energy here to make positive change for the students and to build an institution that we feel is going to best support that goal.

Matt Markin  
And you were mentioning that since July of this year that your institution had the name change from it, from Nevada State College to Nevada State University. So what's your take on on that change? Like, what does that mean to you that you're now Nevada State University?

Alex Kunkle  
You know, for academic advising, it's a huge benefit. We would be meeting with students who not to any fault of theirs, but would confuse us for a community college. The Community College of Southern Nevada became the College of Southern Nevada still a community college, still primarily offering two year degree, two year associates degrees. And Nevada State College had always been a four year institution offering bachelor's degrees, but there was just through name, a natural confusion between the two, especially when you have two other universities in the state that are more well known, University of Nevada, Reno and the University of Nevada, Las Vegas. And so there was always that sort of confusion that, oh, I'm here to get my associates. And what would be the most upsetting is when a student would pay for their application fee, they would be admitted, they would come to us thinking that they were going to be able to pursue their associates, to which our advisors would then have to say, unfortunately, this is who we are as an institution. So the name change itself, hopefully, and again, we're only two months in at this point, but hopefully will help further define who we are as an institution and what we can offer the community. And so from an advising standpoint, we're very excited for the change. The whole college is really leaning into this sort of rebranding and reintroducing ourselves to the community as a four year institution that offers that personalized learning experience, but at an affordable cost that may better serve students that are looking for that small feel, hometown style community, and so it's very exciting to put ourselves out there. We're relaunching the website. You know, we just got new email addresses. Everything's new and fresh. So it's very exciting to be here right now as we're going through this change.

Matt Markin  
How has I been, like, going through the whole process of renaming everything, like, making sure that, okay, my email signature from letterhead, website, business cards, that you're not forgetting anything, or finding somebody like, oh, it still says college, and we need to change at the university.

Alex Kunkle  
Yeah. I mean, our marketing team is great, and they've rolled out a lot of materials for us, but we're going through everything. And I'm sure in two years we'll dig up some file that you know, we never rebranded, but it's a work in progress, and it's not something that you know. Day one, everything switched over, sort of rolling everything out step by step. But even something along the lines of a random account that you know, Nakata, for example, I have to make sure to go into Nakata and change my email address. Now, fortunately, our, you know, existing or prior email addresses are still going to remain active, so no one's going to get bounced back anytime soon. But you know, it will happen, and that's just the growing pains of going through a large transition like this. But our marketing team has been great and prepared us for this. And so it's, it's just something that every day we're just making extra changes, and hopefully we catch everything.

Matt Markin  
So what's your role as Director of Academic Advising entail?

Alex Kunkle  
You know, it's, it's evolved over time. The first several years I was here, it really was building the advising center. We've grown from six, seven staff members when I started in 2017 to now we're at 19 staff members. We have 11 full time academic advisors. We have several office leadership positions, including associate director that never existed, two assistant directors that never existed before. So the first several years was really building out the office and setting up the policies that would directly support students. Mandatory advising was a big one that we have constantly expanded from only, you know, seeing first year students to now seeing students all the way through graduation. In some cases, the last few years has really transitioned my role to focus more on broad enrollment management. I report up through the Provost Office and Enrollment Management is really within their purview here at the college. So the office of admissions and recruitment, the Office of Financial Aid, the Office of the Registrar and the Academic Advising Center are sort of the four key stakeholders in that enrollment management goal, so creating policies and procedures that will support enrollment management, but really cross collaborating with those other directors to try to find ways in which we can not only increase new enrollment, but also maintain a high level of retention, making sure that the students that we do admit are supported and can be successful in the campus environment and here at the university, and that's really been the last, the last several years of my role, and how it's evolved over time, the day to day of the office has definitely my focus on the day to day of the office has definitely decreased over the last several years. I rely on my associate director and my assistant directors to really hold down the fort as it would be, and while I set the general guide or tone of the office the day to day, I really let them handle it. And I'm fortunate that I have a great group of advisors who are really capable and passionate about the work that they do. And it's taken time to build that staff. And you know, when you have a staff of 19, as anyone who knows, you know, turnover is going to be high because, you know an academic advisor, it's a hard job, especially here at Nevada State, again, constantly evolving policies and curriculum as a new institution. It's a lot for the advisors to keep up on. But we're finally at a place in which our team is is solid, and I'm really excited about the future of the office and sort of who we have in these key roles that will really be there to support the students. And so I trust my team to sort of, you know, manage that day to day, so I can focus on some of the larger university needs and how we can continue to build, build, Nevada State.

Matt Markin  
Your office has grown a lot. You supervise a lot more people now than than when you first started. There so many different policy changes. So, I mean, I guess through the years, have you? Have you learned anything about yourself, whether it's as a supervisor, as a manager, or as an administrator on campus?

Alex Kunkle  
Yeah. Um, you know, the biggest learning experience that I have, and it's one that I still, I still have to fight, sort of, my inner, my inner demons, I guess I'll say, is I, I need to slow down. And that's something that's a big tip that I would give any new director, is think, be patient, and really reflect on or dissect every aspect of a decision before you rush into it. And I've made a lot of those decisions that I've said this is what's best, and let's, let's move forward with it. And then you. Know, in hindsight or retrospect, it's been okay. Well, maybe we could have done that differently. Maybe if we, you know, looked at it from a different angle, or brought in different stakeholders, the outcome may have been different, maybe positive, maybe negative. But I think my biggest challenge has always been to slow down and not just just push everything forward. One of my sort of mantras is, what's next, and it's from one of my favorite TV shows, the West Wing. And I'm always looking at what that next project, that next goal, is going to be. And, you know, just even writing my strategic plan for a new side of the office that we just developed this year. I'm writing the strategic plan for next year. We've got about 30 goals, and that's a lot, so I have to think to myself, what are the key goals that we're trying to achieve? And let's focus on those, instead of trying to rush through all 30. What are five? What are seven? What are 10 that we can focus on and maybe give it more time and do consideration, and that that still has is a challenge of mine, but one that I've learned over the last six years, patience and just slow down a bit more.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, definitely work in progress. Yes, so within your obviously, it's talking about centralized advising model. Was that similar to like your previous institution in Oregon, or totally separate?

Alex Kunkle  
It was different in Oregon. So when I was at the Academic Advising Center at Western we were basically an exploratory and core curriculum Advising Center, although we were also known as the fixers when a campus department would be struggling with advising at the faculty level, we would sort of try to create some structure and maybe advise students for a period of time, maybe they had some faculty turnover and they just couldn't support their large student caseload, we would step in and help until they stabilized, or maybe create a new process for them and but the focus really there was sort of that exploratory student and advising the general education requirements of the institution. So when I came to Nevada State, while there was a faculty advising component this, the goal was still for at least the professional staff to centralize as much as possible. So a few years after I got here, we absorbed one of the schools here, the School of Liberal Arts and Sciences, and took on all of their advising and centralized that, and just this year, we have done the same with our School of Education. So other than our admitted nursing students, everything at this point is centralized, which obviously there's there's pros and cons to that. I fundamentally believe in the power of faculty advising and the role that faculty can serve students in a way that professional advisors simply can't. We don't have the expertise in the field to be able to talk about what faculty know and what they've experienced in their careers. I can talk about the curriculum for nursing, but I've never been a nurse, and the faculty have that expertise and experience. So even though we're centralized in advising, how can we make sure that faculty still play a key role in the student experience and maintain that connection with faculty in one way or another? And that's been sort of the big focus as we continue to centralize is, yes, there are benefits like, you know, unified training, direct supervision, that we can provide every day, versus, you know, sometimes it's a nine month contract for faculty, or sometimes reports of Dean, sometimes it reports to your department head. There's a consistency with centralized advising, but making sure that the faculty stay in that key role, is something that we still strive for here, and try to keep those connections between the students and the faculty, but also the advisors in the faculty. We want to keep those relationships strong. So it was different coming in here, but there was the appetite to centralized so there wasn't a lot of resistance, a lot of support from the administration and the faculty as well, to move in this direction, which made that sort of transition much easier. 

Matt Markin  
Do you feel like students have a pretty good idea now that you have pretty much meet with pretty much most of the students now in the centralized model that there's really no confusion, where student knows where to go, and there's can be a handoff to faculty in certain situations?

Alex Kunkle  
Yeah, I mean, I do, and we work with students from the very beginning, like we are their orientation. We are getting to know them. And again, the goal of the institution is really that. Personalized experience. So we want the student to know we are your advisor, and we are your first point of contact no matter what you need. Give us a call, come and see us. We're here for you, and because we have such a robust advising team, students can get in basically when they need to. They don't have long waits. I mean, obviously peak advising is a challenge for any advising office, but they can get in and see us whenever they need us, and so they know that we're here for them, and we know through time. And this has been, you know, a goal of mine, and actually, I relied on my current assistant director to really forge a lot of these relationships with faculty, so we do have those key points of contact, and we can say, Oh, you want to go talk to Dr. such and such, and they will be able to help you with X, Y and Z. And having those key relationships and faculty that really do lean into that sort of mentorship role has helped, and it just makes the student experience better. It's that warm hand off that we pride ourselves on here again, with that personalized experience so students are definitely aware of where to go and who to turn to, and if they don't, we also have a really strong success network platform that's also ran out of our office. So if students are falling off track and faculty are the one or first ones to see that or catch that, we have a really good referral system gets them to an advisor, gets them to a success coach, gets them to a counselor, whatever it may be. And so that sort of wrap around service is something that helps with that centralized advising to get them to the key people when it's necessary.

Matt Markin  
And since you are centralized, do you also do your advisors also meet with their students when they happen to maybe fall on like some sort of academic warning, dismissal, probation type, status?

Alex Kunkle  
We do and we don't. So the advisors do. If they happen to be meeting with a student and they recognize that the student is falling off track in one way or another, we will intervene and we will have that conversation with them. But we also have a dedicated success team that really monitors that population, either through the E alert system, and sort of a proactive or after the fact in a reactive way. After grades have been published, we reach out to them. We have mandatory advising with our success team for students who have fallen into academic warning, probation or suspension, to try to correct things and get them back on the right track and keep them at the university, but the advisors can also serve in that role if they happen to be meeting with them, because oftentimes, again, we're the first point of contact for many of these students, and so we kind of tag team those those services, with our success team. And since they're out of our office as well, it just makes it easy to sort of get them to the right person when necessary. 

Matt Markin  
I mean, I would assume I'll find out shortly, but with a lot of the conversations that your advisors have had, you know, with conversations you've had with students, from meeting with them and you being the first ones to see them at orientation, meeting with them throughout their time at the institution, through graduation, is this where your article that you worked with A couple other individuals came about the one that's titled shameless supporting students experiencing shame and guilt through academic advising.

Alex Kunkle  
Yeah. So, you know, I've, I've always tried to approach my writing for advising from sort of an interdisciplinary approach. And I think some of the best, some of the best work that's coming out of academic advising looks at the work that we do and tries to apply a concept or a theory that works in other fields. And I think that's that's something that academic advising can sort of pride itself on, is we're going to pull the best of everything. And so the shameless article really came out of some work that my colleagues were looking into and that applied to their work, and we sort of went into the article with that sort of psychology counseling lens and said, these are some things that our students were noticing or experiencing, and how can we support them when they're experiencing a shame or guilt with their work. Or, you know, a lot of our students are dealing with, you know, imposter syndrome, or, you know, just a lack of a sense of belonging. And so trying to look at those concepts that we all know about in student development, but apply sort of that interdisciplinary approach to the work that we do advising, and that's that's where a lot of my writing and focus has always been, and what interests me in trying to bring something new to the field so that everyone can benefit from it.

Matt Markin  
I mean, in that article, I mean, you talked about shame and guilt and being like these secondary emotions, and that advisors, and it's. Ones need to recognize some of these cues, and as much as shame and guilt are similar, it's also mentioned that they're very distinct in the sense that guilt arises from a negative evaluation of one's behavior, but shame might arise from maybe a negative evaluation of oneself. So I guess in your experience, let's say you have a new advisor. How can advisors be more aware of these emotions during these conversations that they're having with students.

Alex Kunkle  
I think the two things that I talk about with my new advisors are, you know you've probably experienced these things as well. Your student once lean into the experiences that you have, and it is okay to share those experiences in a way, to connect with your students and so recognize what you have gone through, and try to put yourself in their shoes, thinking that 10 years ago, five years ago, you may have been going through the exact same thing. And the other thing that I typically will try to tell my advisors is that, I mean, we all, well, many of us know that emergent adulthood is this sort of new developmental stage in the life cycle of an individual. And our students aren't fully formed yet, and they're still trying to figure out who they are. So they may be going through things for the first time that they've never experienced before, and I just mentioned imposter syndrome a second ago, but the other one is, you know, this sort of sense of failure oftentimes in your first semester at an institution. It's the first time you may have ever failed the test or failed a class, and you may have been a stellar student in your K through 12 experience, and then, for the first time, failed. And our students, students today, what I've noticed is they don't necessarily see this as an event, they see this as a characteristic of themselves. And I tell my advisors to remind students that this is just something that has happened. It's not who you are. And so trying to put yourself in their shoes and remember that they're still developing. They're still not quite fully formed yet, and that this could be the very first time that they've ever experienced whatever they may be going through, and just to help them through that, as much as you can be, you know a person that is there for them, as much as they need you to be and form that relationship. And you know, the stronger the relationship, the stronger the bond that an advisor has with their advisee, the more successful a student will will be, in the long run, great advice.

Matt Markin  
And so moving on to maybe going to things you do outside of the institution, in your bio, it talks about, you know, you're very heavily involved within NACADA. What's that journey been like for you?

Alex Kunkle  
You know, it really goes back to my mentor that I mentioned earlier. She was was involved in NACADA, and still is very involved in the association. And so early on, she basically told me to lean into it, and helped me, you know, build connections. I think it was Jennifer Joslin who really talked about finding a mentor in the field is key. And this individual, my mentor was that, not only professionally, but also through the association, for me, provided me the opportunity to attend, like I said, I attended my first conference in 2012 was a regional conference. She said, come up with a presentation proposal. And I didn't know what to write about, but I had put together at the time what was, what I thought was, a very innovative note taking system. We had only used paper notes in the office. I helped the office transition to a digital note system that was entirely out of Microsoft Excel, and in 2012 you know, we don't, maybe remember, but we didn't have these massive node systems like we do now, with EAB and starfish and some of these other products. And so at the time, Excel was what we had. And so I presented on it, and that was really my first introduction to NACADA. I got heavily involved in Region 8. 8 is indeed great. There was a lot of people that really embraced me and opened their arms to me within the region. Went to a lot of regional conferences. I was the communication coordinator for the region, and got really involved in volunteering for every year, volunteer for the regional conference, whether it be the Tech coordinator, the communication coordinator, whatever it may be, getting involved in that. And through that, I was, I was recognized, as you know, a new advisor in the year in 2013 which really just, you know, boosted my confidence and wanted me to get more and more involved in NACADA as. I applied for the Emergent Leader program, and I was not only fortunate enough to be accepted, but through a weird twist of fate, I was paired with somebody who, you know, is a giant in the field. I was originally paired with a great individual. He was really passionate about the program, but unfortunately, he left the field of advising, and so I found myself without a formal mentor in the Emerging Leaders Program. And Charlie Nutt gave me a call and said, Hey, I'd love to be your mentor for the next two years. And so I got paired with Charlie. And you know, he asked me, What are your goals? And I said, I want to chair a conference. He said, do it. And so I was able to relaunch and sort of introduce a state drive in conference to the state of Oregon, the O triple, a conference of 2016 we hosted it on our campus at Western Oregon, and brought over 300 advisors from the state, all to very small town Monmouth. And then shortly after that, I was given the opportunity to host or to chair a regional conference. So I chaired the region eight conference in Montana in 2017 In fact, I accepted my new job as the director here in Nevada, and then said, a week later, I have to fly back to Montana to chair this conference. And those were both great opportunities. And so I decided that I wanted to, you know, continue to give back to the association. I had chaired a couple of committees at that point, but I applied to get a mentor, and my Emerging Leader at the time was was really following a similar trajectory, and we had a good connection. And so got paired with an amazing emerging leader who is now taking on committee chairship of her own. And as you said when you were, you know, sharing my bio, I'm now stepping into the administrative division representative role and Nakata council because of that as well. So it's a new experience, and I don't know what, what the future with NACADA and bring for me, but continuing to lean in and finding those sort of opportunities, or, as many people in the associate Association say, volunteers. You know, someone shoulder taps, you say yes, and that's the best thing I can say. I knew we're all busy. We all have a ton of things on our plate, but it is the connections that I have built through Nakata that is the reason that I am here, and I've been told that my my boss, who hired me at Nevada State, and he's at a different institution now, he specifically said that, you know, having Charlie as one of my references, and my connection with NACADA really brought a lot to the table for for them when they were looking at someone to build an advising program. And NACADA is the name in advising. There's a lot of other great associations that do work with advising, but NACADA is the Association for academic advisors, and so and I do the same thing for my staff. I encourage them get involved. I will find a way to get as much money as possible, to send you to a regional conference, or to get you to do a webinar, or whatever it may be, but volunteer, you know person the ask me booths even something as as basic as spending two hours at the registration desk. You're gonna meet people. You're gonna be provided with opportunity. And five, 710, years down the line, you're going to have a reference that may help you get that next step, or get that next job, or write that paper with a colleague, that all of a sudden it's like, now we're publishing for the NACADA journal. Just say yes, and that's really been my journey with.

Alex Kunkle  
I mean, I'm on this podcast day, because you and I, you know, I've known you for several years now, and we met at an acknowledge conference and and just through, through running in similar circles. We we've run into each other a million times at these events. And you see, I mean, especially for those and again, we know, like I said, burnout in the field is high. So some people to three years, and they realize that advising may not be the right career for them, but for those people who really have a passion for this work and who get involved in the association just naturally through their work and academic advising, I've got some lifelong friends through the association, I mean people that I've known since 2000 12. I mean, our new executive director of NACADA, Kyle Ross I met him at my first conference in 2012 and we've been friends ever since. And every year we see each other at these conferences, and it's just like it's running into someone that you've always known. And so you know, getting building those relationships and having those experiences add a different side of things to what is a very difficult job, and going to these conferences or doing these types of things just reinvigorates you and remembers why you're doing the work that you're doing every day.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, absolutely, and you're mentioning Charlie and I. So I was actually messaging with him yesterday. I told him I was going to be interviewing you today. So you wanted me to tell you, and he's probably told you this before you know this, but he said to tell you how proud he is of you. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. So what does Charlie Nutt mean to you?

Alex Kunkle  
You know, I have my my my mentor, my former boss is still my mentor to this day, but Charlie is sort of, Charlie's just something special. And, you know, my mentor, when she helped me develop and and was was, you know, putting me through the roads, teaching me all of the things you know, always talked about, you know, Alex, you can do you can do this. You can do that. And I, you know, I believed her, and I believed in myself. But when Charlie tells me, You can do this, it really is a confidence boost, because so many people look at Charlie as you know he is, and was Nakata for so long. And so when he tells you, even just that, you know, like, what you just said, I appreciate hearing that, because that's what it was with Charlie. He was just always so encouraging and supportive of whatever I wanted to do. He's like, You can do this. And I it really helped me lean into, lean in things like, you know, chair in a conference. I didn't have event planning experience. I didn't really have budgeting experience. But I'm like, You know what? I think I can do this. And it really because, was because Charlie was just there as as a support and someone that I could lean on just to bounce ideas off of as well. Like, I like you said you were just texting with him. I could text Charlie right now and be like, I don't know what to do here. And he'll just throw, you know, 50 different ideas my way and, and I'll just run with one or seven or 50 of them. And so he was always just somebody that was just so warm and inviting and welcoming to me and, and, you know, I still talk to him as frequently as I can, and I know he's enjoying retirement, so I don't necessarily want to bug him constantly, but he is there if I need him, and that's what Charlie is doing.

Matt Markin  
And soon, or maybe at the time this episode airs, you'll officially then be in the administrative division rep role and serving on also NACADA Council, but as of this recording, you're a few weeks away from that starting. So from your understanding, what will those roles look like?

Alex Kunkle  
You know, I don't know. I think there's a lot of excitement with stepping into this role, because there's a lot of opportunity in things that I haven't done yet. You know, with all of my past roles that I've done through NACADA, whether it be the global awards chair or now the annual conference Advisory Board Chair, I've always had sort of a singular focus. It's been you're focused on this committee, you're focused on this advisory board, with this my biggest focus and my biggest goal. And I don't know how easy it's going to be, and I don't know even if this is within the lane of the role, but it's how can we engage the association to get more people involved, to find those opportunities for people who are looking to, again, lean into NACADA, say yes to things. How can we get them involved? And also, how can we capitalize on the leadership of the expertise of those who have been in the association, who've lived the Association for so long? You included, how can we keep you involved and provide new opportunities for people that have already given so much to NACADA, but maybe want to give a little bit more, and so it's that sort of balancing act of bringing in, you know, new people, but also remembering the people that got us here, saying, Can you give us a little more? Can you help solve this problem? Can you chair this really challenging committee or task force, or whatever it may be, so we can rely on on your experience in the association, hopefully in my time as administrative division rep and also on the council, I'll be able to ask those questions and bring that sort of goal to the forefront. And I think a lot of people share that goal, which is good. I mean the membership and recruitment committee and retention committee. Is all about that. But how can we, how can we share that whole together? And that's sort of what I'm most excited about in my upcoming role, and over the next few years that I'll be, I'll be in this position.

Matt Markin  
And as we wind down with this interview, maybe something non advising or hired related. Do I understand correctly that I heard that you're a Raiders fan.

Alex Kunkle  
I am a Raiders fan. Some people will say it's unfortunate, and sometimes I feel that. I feel the same way, but I am a lifelong Raiders fan. It's a family thing for me. So my grandfather was in the Navy in Alameda County in the 50s, and so when Oakland got the raiders in the early 60s. He was all in and somehow it just stuck with the family. And I've been, I've been both blessed and cursed with that over the years. But funny enough, I moved to Las Vegas in 2017 and two months after I moved here, they officially announced their move, and I was, you know, right on time to sign up for season tickets. And so, yes, I have, I have had the privilege of attending several Raiders games here in town, and haven't seen them win a ton. But, you know, there's always next year, you know, maybe this year, but I don't think so. But yes, it is. It is a blessing and a curse that I am a Raiders fan, yes.

Matt Markin  
like it's your team. You love going to those games. Awesome. You know, maybe they'll win at some point down one of these years. I mean, it's like me with baseball in the Padres, I always say next year.

Alex Kunkle  
So you know, unfortunately, I have, I have never tasted victory for any of my sporting teams. I am a lifelong Trailblazers fan. I'm a lifelong Seattle Mariners fan, and I'm an Oregon Ducks fan, and so not a lot of winning, at least at the highest level for any of my teams since I've been the fan. So maybe I'm the problem.

Matt Markin  
And comic book wise, I heard your Batman fan.

Alex Kunkle  
I am a Batman fan. I appreciate comic books across the board, but I really, you know, I was around comics when I was a kid. My dad kind of collected comics a bit. But actually, it wasn't really until I got to college that I found a real passion for comic books. I even took a, you know, a course or two on the, you know, the literature behind, you know, graphic novels and comics. And when Batman Begins, came out in like, 2005 I was just like, This is awesome. So much so that my very first tattoo, maybe, maybe a mistake at the time, but I was 19, was a Batman tattoo. So, yeah, I'm a big Batman fan. And actually have just recently rediscovered a comic book collecting and kind of leading into that as a side hustle, and really enjoying the hunt of comic books, and comic book culture.

Matt Markin  
My favorite storyline. I think with Batman, had them in 90s with with nightfall, I don't think we can beat that.

Alex Kunkle  
You know? I, I just went through my personal collection, and that being some random books that I had from when I was a kid, or that my my dad had given me when I was younger, and I'm like, You know what? Again, I'm leaning into the comic collecting. I, I sent a couple of them in to officially get graded, and so I definitely have sort of the premier issue of that Knightfall series, and it is prominently displayed in my collection so very good storyline. And there's so many that I can name, and that's just what got me stepping off to a million other ones. I have a tattoo from the movie The Crow with Brandon Lee. Like I love all kinds of comics, and so it's exciting time to be a comic fan, and it gives you something to look forward to in all my free time that, as you know, I don't really have.

Matt Markin  
But Alex, I appreciate you taking time out of your day to do this at least, and I think I've learned a lot more about you, and hopefully listeners too can gain some insight from a lot of knowledge that you have through your years of experience, especially your time as director, and then also the involvement you have before and still now and continuing in NACADA, so Alex, thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Alex Kunkle  
Thanks, Matt. Appreciate it.